Interview with Messianic Rabbi Derek Leman

A couple weeks back, I mentioned an upcoming blog interview with Derek Leman, Messianic Rabbi of Congregation Tikvat David in Atlanta, Georgia.

This was facilitated by the folks over at ThreadsMedia, who are publishing a Feasts of the Lord kit, containing some great materials for Christians interested in the Feasts:

• Derek's short and easy-to-read book, Feast: Finding Your Place at the Table of Tradition
• A Feast-oriented music CD from some gentile Christian artists and some down-to-earth personal stories from gentile Christians who started celebrating the Feasts of the Lord.
• A DVD of Derek and some friends celebrating a sabbath meal.

If you're a Christian the least bit interested in the Feasts of the Lord, please check out Derek's book, or the whole Feast kit. Both are geared towards gentile Christians who don't know where to begin in keeping God's feasts, a great starting point.

Below is a few questions from myself, some friends, and some questions from you fine blog readers, asking Derek questions about his book and why gentile Christians ought to keep the Feasts of the Lord.

Derek and I don't see quite eye-to-eye on everything, and you can see some of that in this interview. That's OK. We come from different backgrounds and different theologies to end up where we are today. To each his own.

Without further ado, the interview with Messianic Rabbi Derek Leman.

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Q. In your preface to Feast, you introduce yourself as someone who is "converting to Judaism". In the same breath, you say, "Yes, I am a Christian." I must admit, I was surprised to read this! I can hear my gentile Christian friends saying, "We don't need anything but Jesus. What's this 'converting to Judaism' stuff?"

A. Converting to Judaism is a misleading expression. It gives the idea that someone like me is changing religions. That's not it at all. I am joining a people, the people of Israel. Israel has always been a people you could join. Caleb and Ruth are biblical examples of non-Jews who joined Israel.

That said, conversion is not for most people. There is no reason in Christ to convert. My family and I are converting because our life calling and destiny is with the Jewish people. We believe God has called us to convert. It has nothing to do with being holier than someone else or thinking that being Jewish makes someone better. All such thinking is false.

Q. You said that your act of converting to Judaism is "not for everybody." What about the Feasts themselves - are they only for people interested in Judaism?

A. The premise of my book is that Christians have the freedom to celebrate the Biblical feasts. I do not believe that they are commandments for non-Jews. I think there are many reasons why Christians would want to keep the feasts that Jesus and the apostles kept which point to Messiah.

Q. A Christian recently related to me, "I know certain Christians are wrong for trying to turn Jews into gentiles. But you're doing the reverse! You're trying to turn me into a Jew with all these Jewish feasts and Jewish sabbath."

A. I do not think it is right to compel Christians to keep the Sabbath and the feasts of Israel. But this is theology you and I disagree about. I think Acts 15 is very clear and reflects what the Torah itself teaches: God has special commands for Israel to separate them from the nations and these commands are not required of non-Jews.

Q. How would you answer a Christian critic who says you are "Judaizing" by your preaching to gentiles of the Feasts and the Sabbath?

A. My message is, "These feasts are your heritage and you didn't know it." The truth is that the historical separation of Christianity from its Jewish heritage is a sad example of prejudice. The Romans were not favorable to the Jewishness of Jesus and they distorted his image and removed Biblical traditions from the church. I am not compelling Christians to be Jews, but encouraging them to discover their roots.

Q. A Messianic Jewish friend tells me that the Feasts are for the Jews only. Sure, gentiles can celebrate them if they so choose, but they belong to Israel only; he says Passover is an Israelite festival only, for example, and is not meant for Christians. What do you say to this?

A. Passover is unique and different from the other holidays in terms of a Christian's relation to it. When Jesus said, "As often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me," he did not mean "as often as you eat a cracker and drink a thimble of juice." He meant, "as often as you celebrate Passover." I think Passover is something Christians should celebrate. As for the other holidays, they are requirements for Jews and heritage for Christians.

Q. One of my blog readers, Pam, asks,
"The question I have is...if I start doing this do I have to cook? I want to think about this and come back to it when I have more time but you know, I'm pretty much a person to whom one day is like another and holidays interrupt my routine and make a lot more work for me and it is usually work I don't enjoy that much, like cooking. People who are into Christmas would call me a Scrooge. It was easy for me to bag those celebrations but in honesty, this is probably one reason that I drag my feet on adopting Jewish holidays. I also don't think it is necessary so I lack motivation. I know that in the Kingdom, if there are holidays to celebrate, they will be the Jewish feasts and festivals but I'm hoping that when I am glorified, I won't have to cook, clean, or clean up after."

A. I don't think Pam should feel compelled to keep the Jewish feasts, other than observing the Passover Seder and remembering the body and blood of Messiah. I'm sad that she doesn't get the joy of cooking and preparing and feasting, but people all have different pleasures I suppose.

Q. Sabbath might be called the first of God's Feasts, since God instituted it long before Sinai, long before Israel even existed. There seems to be a lot of confusion about this feast -- Sunday? Saturday? A Christian friend asks, "is going to church on Sunday an acceptable sabbath celebration?"

A. I do not agree with those Christian writers who turn the Sabbath into a principle (get more rest). The Sabbath is what it is: Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. You either keep it or you don't. As I have said, non-Jews are not required to keep the Sabbath, so your friend need not worry about whether Sunday church is keeping the Sabbath.

Q. You discussed Hanukkah as the last chapter in Feast. Blog reader J. Gabrielle asks,
"I see from the New Testament that Jesus celebrated Hanukkah. Can you explain the significance of that holiday?"

A. Wow, that's what my chapter in the book is all about. I hope Gabrielle will buy it.

Q. In Feast, you talk about the importance of tradition. When many Christians look down on tradition as stuffy, superfluous ritual, and even many Messianic Jews look at some traditions, such as the Talmud, as unnecessary. In a world that frowns on tradition, can you sum up why you place so much importance on it?

A. People who say they hate tradition don't realize how much tradition plays a part in their lives. Even the most vanilla Protestant evangelical church service has some tradition in it (I address this in the book). We have replaced tradition with entertainment in our world. Our children are much the poorer for it. In a traditional home, children feel secure and learn from the observances. Another reason people dislike rituals and traditions is because they buy into the unbiblical idea that physical things are unimportant. There is no such thing as spirituality divorced from the physical. Spirituality is physical and the sooner people realize that, the sooner worship will get deeper in those vanilla churches.

Q. There are some Feasts that are straight from God ("God's Feasts"), commanded in the Torah to be kept eternally, and then there are other Feasts that are Jewish tradition ("Jewish feasts"). Hanukkah, and Purim are examples of Jewish traditions. Do you distinguish between these? In light of how you place importance on tradition, how do you approach national Jewish traditions compared to Scriptural commandments?

A. Hanukkah and Purim are different from the feasts of Leviticus. They are not symbolic of God's work in the world on the same level as the primary feasts. Still, they are valuable traditions and our family celebrates them religiously, as festivals reminding us how many times God has saved his people from destruction.

Q. On a related note, your Feast book contains chapters dedicated to all but 2 of the Feasts of the Lord: Unleavened Bread and First Fruits. Additionally, it includes a chapter on Hanukkah. Can you describe why you chose to address these particular feasts?

A. I don't see Unleavened Bread as separate from Passover. As for Firstfruits, I had to choose six feasts. Firstfruits is really just one observance in the midst of Passover week. By itself, it does not have enough symbolism to go into the length and depth I went into for the other feasts. I felt that teaching Christians about Hanukkah would be more valuable.

Q. A Christian friend relates, "All the feasts and sabbath sound good, and it's fine for Jews to keep, but I'm not under the Law, so why put myself under it by keeping them?"

Paul says in Romans 14 that while some consider one day more holy than others, other folks consider every day alike, and he finishes by saying, "Each one should be convinced in his own mind...do so for the Lord and give thanks to God."

A. I have already mentioned several times that I do not believe non-Jews are required to keep the identifiers of Torah (Sabbath, dietary law, circumcision, fringes). My interpretation of Romans 14 is very much along those line. I think it is about Paul rebuking the Roman Christians (non-Jews) for mocking Judaism. Paul is using rhetoric and we should not assume from his words that Paul thinks any less of the Sabbath than his fellow Jews. He is simply telling Gentiles, "The one who keeps the Sabbath does it for God; who are you to judge God's servant obeying what God commanded him?" Romans 14 is yet another text in the New Testament that affirms Jewish observance of Torah and Gentile freedom.

Q. To the outside observer, it seems you are considering the Feasts holy, yet it goes without saying that many Christians do not consider them holy. Do Paul's words in Romans 14 apply here, meaning that it doesn't matter if some Christians do not consider the Feasts of the Lord to be holy?

A. Christians should consider Jewish observance of God's commands holy, even when those commands do not apply to them. If I know God commanded someone else to do something, if I stand in the way of their obedience, I am fighting with God.

Q. Can you sum up why you encourage Messiah-followers, even gentile Christians, to keep the Feasts?

A. Passover, Firstfruits, and Weeks we celebrate the death, resurrection, of our Messiah and his imparting the Holy Spirit to us. Rosh HaShanah, Yom Kippur, and Tabernacles celebrate the return of Jesus, the coming judgment of God, and the World to Come where we will dwell with God. The themes and truths of the Jewish holidays follow God's complete plan for this world. They are the root from which Christianity sprang and the history reasons the church had for leaving them behind were unsound.

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Thanks Derek! And thanks for the questions all you fine blog readers and friends.