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Atheist Contempt for Judeo-Christian Values

“Salvation Army is an Anti-Gay, Pro-Life Evangelical Christian Organization”

…so don’t donate to them.

The above headline was taken from Reddit, one of the most popular sites on the web, self-described as “the voice of the internet.”

The site draws me for its tech news and amusing internet time-wasters.

But it’s also a popular hub for atheists,, and for homosexual people: These sub-websites give an amusing look into a world most religious folks are blissfully ignorant of.

Take a peek for yourselves at these choice quotes from the above article:

Helping people is clearly a secondary goal of [the Salvation Army’s] church. Which is what they claim themselves as in order to bypass anti-discrimination laws so they don't have to have any pesky gays around.

SA refuses to employ gays, and claims itself as a church to bypass anti-discrimination laws. They clearly have helping people as a secondary agenda, and even threaten to pull themselves out of places in order to sway legislation. They are using their helping people as political leverage.

[Salvation Army is] blatantly bigoted. Why give money to them?

If you are gay you can't help those starving or homeless. It is more important to them to force religious agendas rather than help people.

They may not deny services to specific people whose actions they find morally objectionable. But they certainly hate gay people enough that they're willing to do whatever it takes to deny them equal rights. Why not give your money to an organization that does good work without pushing a fucked up hateful agenda?

[Charities like SA] …are immoral. It's disgusting bigotry against other people, and they're getting our money to do it.

It doesn't cancel out the good things they have done, but it's a mitigating factor. It would be like learning that the local soup kitchen is run by the modern-day Klan.

Someone might say "Look, they're just forcing any poor or homeless black people to listen to lectures about the inferiority of the black race before they get to use their services. So what if it's bad; think of all the good they're doing!"

Read hundreds of comments like these, you start to get a sense of the real bitterness and hate coming out of the atheist and homosexual cultures.

Salvation Army has a “fucked up, hateful agenda”? The Salvation Army is akin to the Ku Klux Klan? Really?

Tell that to the few commenters, including a handful atheists, who were bold enough to speak up:

I grew up in a dirt poor single mum family. We had a small house and that was it. Mum was doing all she could but we lived off 50c noodles. And every year without fail, the salvos gave us Christmas.

That. fucking. meant. so. fucking. much.

It was just a box with some tinned veg etc, a bottle of sauce and a roast with some little toys and clothes for myself and my sisters. And it meant. so. fucking. much.

They didn't judge us. They didn't ever give us sermons. Hell, they didn't even ask if we were Christian. And it wasn't just Christmas. The old ladies at the salvo store would hunt for an hour or so to find us fitting clothes. They gave us books (kids ones). They gave us bread when things got a bit to lean. They did so much for us and asked nothing back.

They were there for us when no one else was. And now I have grown up, and I have a job so I have money to spare. I donate. I suggest you do too. They make the world so much more worth living for so many people, don't just circlejerk at them because they don't agree 100% with you. These people make a difference.

Personally, I am now avoiding joining these discussions. The frenzied blitz of propaganda and hatred is almost impenetrable and ultimately stifling. It’s like trying to speak softly to a person screaming in your face.

It’s far worse than anything I’ve seen in the religious world, even with its extra helping of dumb people. The “agree with us or be an anathema” mentality is far worse than religious cults.

It is helpful to describe the worldview that characterizes this atheist part of our culture:

  • Religion must be overthrown, religious people are backwards, ignorant hypocrites, and God is a myth.
  • LGBT FTW! – lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender. You are member of this group, or support their agenda. Anything less is outdated moral bigotry and intolerance.
  • Drugs should be legalized, starting with cannabis.
  • Virtually all forms of human sexuality are valid.
  • Fuck the moralizers, live and let live.
  • Porn is awesome!
  • There’s no such thing as right and wrong, there exists no real evil, it’s all relative.
  • Business is the devil, most everything should be free.
  • Politically to the extreme left.
  • Separation of church and state is great, except when it comes to the state interfering with the church, in which case they favor state interference.)

In some ways, it’s an inheritance of the values of the 1960s: politically left, free love, drugs, free everything. But now the sexual liberation has been extended, and the “spirit in the sky” is now a myth of the ancients.

Defend God and faith? You’re a deluded Evangelical -- maybe even a laughable Young Earth Creationist, bwaahahaha! -- who just needs to read some Dawkins.

Defend pro-life causes? You’re a freedom-suppressing, anti-choice chauvinist. (And you’re probably a man, so you’re a sexist, too.)

Do you think homosexuality is morally wrong? You’re bigoted, hateful, intolerant religious whacko.

Either way, this sub-culture will flame you, down-vote you off the page, or find some way to silence you and make a caricature out of you.

Remember, they are the intelligent ones, the enlightened moderns, the open-minded of our generation. And it is you religious people who are backwards, bigoted, close-minded, and stupid.

Whatever your view, if it counters their agenda, you’re given a label.

  • Think it’s a bad idea to kill human embryos prior to birth? Your label is Sexist.
  • Think race should be ignored when it comes to employment and schooling? Your label is Racist.

A powerful thing, these labels.

Once you’ve been labeled, debate and thought and introspection has been rendered unnecessary. Your ideas need no assessment.

All that remains is to make a caricature of you. Let the mocking begin, you Homophobic Racist Sexist Intolerant Xenophobic excuse for a human being.

That is the predominant worldview of this subculture in the United States: politically left, stifling religion in all forms (even charities), morally backwards, calling evil good, calling good evil.

That is not to say all atheists follow each of these views, but this is the general worldview and value system of the politically left-of-center, atheist world, with varying degrees of extremity.

I’ve seen it now for 10+ years on big internet hubs like Reddit and Digg, heard it espoused on left-wing political radio here in Minnesota, have seen it on television nationally. Heard it first hand from atheists friends and relatives.

This is not a new phenomenon, however. I’m strangely comforted by that. This is a problem that was around 2000 years ago, something the first disciples had to address directly, whether in idolatry or simple denial of God:

God's angry displeasure erupts as acts of human mistrust and wrongdoing and lying accumulate, as people try to put a shroud over truth. But the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can't see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being. So nobody has a good excuse. What happened was this: People knew God perfectly well, but when they didn't treat him like God, refusing to worship him, they trivialized themselves into silliness and confusion so that there was neither sense nor direction left in their lives. They pretended to know it all, but were illiterate regarding life.

Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn't know how to be human either—women didn't know how to be women, men didn't know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men—all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it—emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches.

Since they didn't bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil, grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing. Look at them: mean-spirited, venomous, fork-tongued God-bashers. Bullies, swaggerers, insufferable windbags! They keep inventing new ways of wrecking lives. They ditch their parents when they get in the way. Stupid, slimy, cruel, cold-blooded. And it's not as if they don't know better. They know perfectly well they're spitting in God's face. And they don't care—worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best!

I am convinced that what Paul, a Jewish disciple of Jesus, described so long ago also describes this generation.

While it may also describe previous generations to a degree, it seems to be snow-balling: what is acceptable today was unthinkable yesterday. It keeps getting worse.

I don’t mean to sound like Auntie Prude, but hell, our TV, our music, our books are filled with things that would be morally shocking to our parents’ generation, a generation not prudish by any measure.

I am trying to imagine what exactly my kids will receive in the next generation – what will be so revolting that it would be obscene even to today’s generation? (Bestiality? Drugs? Pedophilia? Public suppression of religion? Violence towards the religious?) Whatever it is, history shows the next moral obscenity, whatever they think up, will be acceptable by the next generation, God help them.

Know that I’m not some old fart going on about the good ol’ days of yesteryear. I’m 27 years old, and I see it clearly in my generation.

What the hell is happening to the world? And where are we headed?

How has it gotten so bad that people are demonizing charities and convincing others to stop donating to them in the name of No-God?


  1. This is just amazingly funny to me. I periodically visit Reddit for more or less the same reasons you do. Sometimes they have something worthwhile to read, but I've long ago given up trying to participate in any of their discussions. It's like talking to a group of 15 year old boys who spend half their time getting high and the other half trying to figure out how to get laid for the first time.

    Yeah, I used a little "harsh" or "questionable" language, but that's exactly the image I get of the habitual denizens of Reddit. And yes, I am an old fart (56) who somestimes goes on about the "bad old days".

  2. Hahah, so true. And you know, I witnessed this same phenomenon on Slashdot in the late 90s, before Reddit even existed. At least there it focused mostly on left-wing politics, and less on atheism, but there were hints of all this even back then.

    I like The Message translation of Romans 1, describing that generation (and perhaps Reddit denizens) in these terms: "They pretended to know it all, but were illiterate regarding life."

    Paul, meet Reddit. :-)

  3. Judah:

    Thanks for writing and bringing this to our attention. Note that the Salvation Army gets defended even by atheists. Why? Because they do what Yeshua taught.

    I am going to make it a point to give to the guys and gals with their buckets and handbells outside the local Kroger more often this year.

    Derek Leman

  4. And this is why the body of Messiah has to stick together despite our differences...


  5. Judah,

    I've noticed the same observation. That is why I have stopped visiting these sites daily. As Holy Spirit said to me one day, "Why are you so concerned with what man is doing?". I have taken this to mean, "Be more concerned with what I am doing, than what man is doing". That focus has helped me a lot.

    It does not mean to be oblivious to the world, it just means to be much more focused on what God is doing and His purposes than what is happening in the moment.

    BTW, here is a moment issue.

    San Francisco may propose to ban circumcision next year

  6. Isquez, I think Judah covered the SF circumcisions story in this last blog: Weekly Bracha 45.

  7. I have actually wanted to see a post regarding the Reddit culture from a Judeo-Christian perspective. I don't think that it's accurate to say that atheism/agnostics/etc share the particular worldview as you attempted to lump together.

    Don't conflate beliefs in atheism with sexuality, drugs, business, etc. There is a diversity of religious beliefs in Reddit and many of these proponents also happen to be religious. To the extent that atheists are liberal, progressive or libertarian, has a lot to do with evangelical identification with the conservative movement after Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights movement. The Democratic and Republican party are ever-changing coalitions over generations. I am amused by how people embrace wholeheartedly the economic and social aspects of their party, when they used to be at odds decades prior.

    Minority viewpoints tend to be more vocal and passionate. LGBT are generally ostracized from the Christian community and therefore more likely to withdraw from religion. They are often very vocal and vote up/down for their cause. A post about homosexuality is probably from a homosexual. Homosexuality might be a biological rather than a psychological phenomena.

    Morality - To say that atheists/agnostics/nonreligious/secular humanists reject morality is not actually right. There are various models of morality and justice that don't depend on religion like Kant's rational absolutism, Mills Utilitarianism and Locke's social contract or any combination of these. Different societies, even Christians from the same denomination, develop different coherent moral systems to adapt to their particular circumstances and practices. Lynching, for example, is morally repugnant in modern society, but in the past century highly religious communities performed it for violent crimes, because there may not have existed organized law enforcement in the rural community and it was expressly mentioned in the Old Testament alongside public stoning of disobedient children, rape victims, Sabbath workers. Beliefs are very individualistic.

    If look across the history of the Catholic Church, they practiced various things that are now banned--married priests with families, for instance. The clerical vows of poverty, chastity and obedience is a relatively recent development. At one time, surgery was outlawed in the Middle Ages because it was the desecration of the body, made in God's image, as was autopsies/dissection as late as 1900 for similar reasons.

    My personal belief is that our legal system should be based on generally agreed rational framework, not as an embodiment of the religious views of a segment of the population. That was a recognized fear during the constitutional process, and led to the division of federal (for interstate "commerce" and military) and state powers. My dissatisfaction with the Republican is the social interference of or the imposition of a major religious movement (the evangelical movement) on the rest of the population. I was raised Catholic and I find many of their beliefs/practices incompatible with my upbringing; most alarmingly, the lack of an intellectual tradition that is present in Catholicism. In the Middle East, constituents write poetry to convince their lawmakers of their case.


  8. Business. Reddit is heavily comprised of both libertarians and business-bashers. Don't take this as evidence of the religious or non-religious beliefs. The unlimited bandwidth, net neutrality, piracy advocates are a bunch of whiners IMHO.

    Regarding the apparent degeneration of popular culture in television and film, etc, I think this is less severe than thought. Popular culture before television was actually as depraved as before; popular songs were very sexualized and racialized, particularly in the West Coast. This was a time when prostitution, drugs and gambling were legal in much of the US. Drugs were made illegal during Nixon--a few years before I was born. Broadcast television brought with it severe censorship--since networks had to produce programs with the lowest common denominator..


  9. Regarding the issue of culture, I wanted to link to you a post from NYTimes talking about recordings of songs from 1910s, that are in many ways more vulgar than today. The 60s I think were a reaction or revolt against the war and the sterilized music and woodenly acted and moralistic films of the day.

    How Pop Sounded Before It Popped!

    "Pop critics are currently in the throes of post-"rockist" revisionism, thinking through their longstanding biases against commercial pop music. Maybe it's time to look at how those same prejudices, projected back into history, have distorted our vision of pop's distant past.

    The truth is, beneath their quaint rhythms and lyrics about "spooning" under stretching boughs, acoustic-era songs are thematically quite similar to rock and even hip-hop, awash in sex and dancing and a cheery anti-authoritarianism."

    What the US experienced in the early age of TV in the 1950s was a great deal of censorship imposed by the FCC -- a Victorian makeover of America.

  10. All: "anonymous" here is a friend of mine, Wesner Moise. He's an intelligent guy, tech savvy (he's got his own start up company, and formerly worked on Excel at Microsoft). If I'm not mistaken, he was raised Catholic, but I would characterize his views now as something close to agnosticism.

    (Did I get all the right, Wes? :-))

    I'll respond to your posts in another comment.

  11. My personal belief is that our legal system should be based on generally agreed rational framework...

    Um...whose? The first thought that popped into my head when I read that statement is that abortion as a method of casual birth control would go from being rampant to out-of-control. My second thought is that pretty much all of the liberal, progressive agenda would be made law since that particular subset of the American population tends to tout themselves as the most "rational" (religious people get put in the "superstitious", "irrational",and even in the "immoral" categories).

    As you point out, morality isn't in the sole possession of the "religious right" and many liberal progressives have a solid moral structure, but that particular moral code also advocates for what we think of as "political correctness", which means you can't disagree with anyone or any lifestyle, at least outloud. In addition to abortion on demand, do we take a "San Francisco" point of view (ban circumcisions and happy meals because Government knows best and people are dumb) and apply that to the entire nation?

    It would be "rational" and "moral" from the point of view of the lowest common denominator, but could the people of God endure? It might satisfy the majority of the populace but what about God?

  12. I acknowledge that not all atheists are libertarians, pro-legalize drugs, pro-abortion, pro pornography, etc.

    However, these characteristics paint accurate generalization of atheists on one of the most popular sites on the web. There are exceptions, of course, but there are also exceptions to the generalization that all Evangelicals are pro-life, Republican, etc.

    Regarding the degeneration of American culture, never before have we seen pornography so rampant; it's affect on marriages and families is seen in the latest divorce statics, a significant percentage of which cite an obsession/addiction to pornography as the reason for divorce.

    The point of this post, however, was not to argue Judeo-Christian values, or even to characterize the atheist worldview. The crux is this: atheists have contempt for Judeo-Christian values, such that some demand we stop giving to charities like the Salvation Army because they hold Judeo-Christian values.

    The culture has become that bad.

    Think about that for a moment:

    -Don't give to charities who don't share our worldview.

    -Suppress religion in all forms.

    -Legalize mind-altering chems.

    -Amplify non-traditional human sexuality.

    -Down-vote, stifle, and otherwise silence opposing viewpoints.

    -Label the opposition, make caricatures of them, mock them.

    This is the agenda coming out of Reddit, one of the largest hubs for atheism and homosexuality.

    This agenda not right, this is ethically repugnant, this is wrong for our families, destructive to our values and our way of life. I will call it for what it is: evil. This is an evil world view, and I do not apologize in speaking out against it.

  13. "My personal belief is that our legal system should be based on generally agreed rational framework..."

    Currently, this is how it is with secularism, based on legal theories, which model intentions and behavior of a reasonable person.

    Law may be inspired by religious teaching, but reason, not biblical text, serves as its foundational basis. An opposite example is Sharia...

    This idea does present some difficult with issues like slavery in 1860's. The issue of slavery was not widely agreed upon and there was some support for regulated slavery in both the old and new testament (eg, However, slavery sharply conflicts with the principles of democratic governance and freedom.

    The legal system constructs a body of laws based on a supermajority of votes in the federal system and a majority in the state system.

  14. Shalom Judah,

    I can't recall that I have ever visited the Reddit site, but after reading the foul language you quoted, I can assure you I will not.

    And call me a prude, but if you are going to use that language on your own site, either put a disclaimer at the beginning or edit it out please. I am not sure if I am more surprised by the language or the fact that nobody else seemed to mind. Not what I expected after years of following your blog.


  15. I realize that kind of language can be a shock to religious folks. I wanted to give a real view of Reddit, including the foul language, to give you all an idea of the kind of contempt for Judeo-Christian values coming from that popular site.

  16. so what do you have to say about the fact that the founder of the Jewish faith, Moses, was married to a Cushite (she was black) woman? also, you even admit that it's the later Jewish interpretation that says that Jews aren't allowed to marry non-ethnic Jews. the Scripture doesn't actually say that. it says not to marry PAGANS. a big reason why Israel went into exile was because they were so into themselves, and weren't concerned with fulfilling the Abrahamic covenant, which was to incorporate all nations (Gen 15).


Appending "You might like" to each post.