Import jQuery

Turn them Jews into Christians!


A recent article by the Christian Post details a growing call on Christian Zionist groups to state publicly whether they support evangelizing Jews. A task force on Jewish Evangelism issued a statement,

“We believe that calling the Jewish people to accept Jesus (Y’shua) as the Messiah both of Israel and all nations is the biblical mandate and natural loving response to the belief that there is salvation only through personal faith in Jesus Christ. Yet, we recognize that some aspects of Christian Zionism as practiced today, work to the detriment of the Jewish people inasmuch as they undermine Jewish evangelism. We believe they can dilute the gospel message by offering comfort apart from Christ, discourage evangelical Christians from witnessing to their Jewish friends and divert gospel resources which could be channeled toward Jewish evangelism.”

-Resolution passed at the 26th annual meeting of the Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism (LCJE) – North America.

I have mixed feelings about this resolution.

Yes, Messiah is the only way to God

On the one hand, I wholeheartedly and without hesitation say that Messiah is the only way to God. I feel strongly about this because of Messiah’s own statement in the gospel,

I am the way, truth, and life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.

-Messiah to his disciples

Let me say first, I love Judaism. I love my Jewish brothers, yes, the non-Christian ones. To tell the truth, I envy their zeal and good works. The good done through Judaism is something to thank God for. The innumerable good works done in the name of HaShem through various streams of Judaism, such as Chabad, are a testament to the righteous, hands-on nature of God’s Torah. Thinking to myself, I’ll contrast these good works of the synagogue with the evil works done by the Church of the Middle Ages in the name of Christ, such as the expulsion of Jews from Spain or the various pogroms and persecution and murders of Jews, and I think that unbelieving Jews have been doing the job of Messiah-followers for the last 2000 years.

But despite all the failures of the Church, we must concede that no one – from the devout, righteous rabbi to the zealous Chabnik – none of these comes to HaShem without Yeshua, the Messiah. That is why we call Messiah, “Hope of Israel”, Yeshua is the only hope for God’s people Israel.

In this sense, I applaud the resolution when it encourages us to be open about faith in Messiah. I also applaud it for speaking out against the few organizations that claim Jews are OK with God as-is, no Messiah required; the Scriptures tell us otherwise.

Problems with this resolution

On the other hand, I am uncomfortable with this resolution because it feels like it’s asking all who love Messiah and love Israel to go out on the streets and start preaching on a soapbox. Maybe that’s not the intent, but it’s the feeling one gets when chided, “Why aren’t you being more open about Jesus?”

Then Jesus the Christ rose early Sunday morning and went to the synagogues in all of Palestine, proclaiming to the Jews, “Are you SAAAAAAVED, brother???!!! You’re going to hell without me! Can I get an amen?!” He then handed out tracts which were promptly thrown in the trash.

-Imaginary gospel, this didn’t happen

The language of the resolution seems to suggest we should not offer comfort to Jews without first offering the message of Christ. This is a problem. The idea of conversion to Christianity as a prerequisite to offering comfort and aide to God’s people is something that goes against the gospel, goes against pure religion. As one believer in Messiah wrote in the Scriptures,

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

-James, in his letter to all 12 tribes of Israel

James did not say, “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure is this: convert the widows and orphans to Christianity, then help them in their distress.”

I’m extremely uncomfortable with the idea of Jewish conversion to Christianity, truth be told. I prefer to think Jews need not change religions to believe in our own Jewish Messiah. I’m a Jew, I believe in Messiah, and I don’t consider myself part of the Church.

Christian salesmen

I have a general, overall negative attitude towards all this because it feels like that old salesman version of Christianity. You know, that one where it feels like you’re trying to sell something, in this case, eternal salvation. I’m peddling Jesus, you heathen Jews!


It further suggests a feeling that Messianics and other Messiah-loving Zionists exist only to convert Jews to Christianity. By contrast, we see Messianic Judaism as a larger part of God’s move to restore Israel. We do not see this move of God as a Jewish-flavored version of Christianity that exists only to bring in more converts to the Church.

While a novice idealist might say, “Just go preach the gospel! Tell them about Jesus! John 3:16, brother!”, the experienced pragmatists among us know this really doesn’t work, especially for Jews. Too many are burnt out on religious clichés.

Some would go farther and say such an approach isn’t right at all, as it omits crucial parts of the gospel and the special Jewish relation to it: how does God’s eternal commandments in the Torah factor in? Does this “preaching Jesus” allow for the Jewish culture and special Jewish relation to God; are they going to become pork-eating gentiles within a generation? Where does this leave discipleship, following the Master’s example of Torah observance? Or are you just trying to win someone over to your religion?

Messianic rabbi Derek Leman writes,

With great apology to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere, we have to remember the Jewish community is about as enthusiastic about mingling with Messianic Jews as most Christians are about mingling with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

We are perceived as people with a sales agenda. As long as we are feared as having the socializing motives of a local Amway distributor, we are going to be unwelcome ("hi, nice to meet you...we're having a party at my house next month and you're invited...").

I do participate in the Jewish community. I do not wear my faith on my sleeve. I do not come with an agenda. I do not think that it is effective or helpful to bring up controversial matters with mere acquaintances in Jewish space. Those who befriend me discover my faith easily enough. And the only people who care to listen to my ideas are those who know me or know enough about me to care what I think.

On a few occasions I joined a minyan (prayer group) and let the rabbi know in advance I was Messianic but had no intention of conversing with those in the minyan. I came to talk to God with the community and not to sell a message. I don't believe any good would come from attending minyan and meeting people to talk with them about Yeshua. To talk with them about Yeshua, I would need to meet them through another venue.

Some will say I should be more open about my faith and try harder. I have lived that life before. I did it for 5 1/2 years and it never produced anything but discord. By contrast, in meeting Jewish friends on more neutral ground or on Messianic ground, I have found very little discord.

Our primary purpose is not to be door-to-door Christianity peddlers, folks. I’m not a religious salesman. Yes, Messiah told us to “Go into the world and preach the gospel”, but the traditional Christian ideas of standing on a soapbox and preaching in the streets isn’t very helpful in this case. What’s more, the Christian definition of the gospel is lacking and partial and very Church-oriented.

When my younger brother left last year to live permanently in Israel, all of our Christian family members and friends mistakenly thought he did so in order to missionize and convert Jews to Christianity, offering him missionary how-to’s and books and other materials. Why is it that Christians assume a believer going to another country automatically means he’s going to missionize? We’ve been so conditioned to believe missionizing is the only purpose of Messiah-lovers abroad; why is it hard to understand this idea of service? To live a life of service to the Lord and servitude toward others, without any prerequisites or gotchas, – no strings attached – why is this so foreign to our faith in Messiah? Have we become mere religious salesmen, where we love, offer comfort to, and aide only those who’ve bought our product?

As one Jew put it, what this world really needs is for men to wash one another’s feet, to serve each other. More servants, fewer masters. Ideally, only one Master.

We are called to be servants of God, disciples of Messiah, imitators of the Master and teacher HaMoshiach Yeshua. Perhaps a pragmatic approach to spreading Messiah’s Good News is living by example. As Derek said,

Those who befriend me discover my faith easily enough. And the only people who care to listen to my ideas are those who know me or know enough about me to care what I think.

I’m a disciple of the Master Yeshua, which means following God best as I can, according to the way he told us in Torah and showed us through his Torah-observant life. I want my life and actions, not just my cheap words, to be the thing that causes people to see, many to trust that Yeshua is indeed the Messiah of Israel.


  1. I must say, Judah, that I agree with this post of yours - much of it in fact.

    Personally, I wholeheartedly support the Good News of Israel's Maschiach being actively proclaimed. I am thankful that I heard it proclaimed. Yeshua's disciples have gone from town to town of Israel telling all who would listen about who Yeshua is (Israel's Promised King) and what He has done and will do for Israel, and what must Israel do to be redeemed.

    Not that I support many of the methods used today in evangelism (by J4J's, for example) - I don't.

    Here's my problem with the way Christian organizations have evangelized Jews throughout history: while proclaiming Jesus to Jews as Israel's Messiah (which is, of course, great and very true!), they were, at the same time, telling Jews that they should abandon Torah and that the Jewish way of life as done away with.

    They even going so far as to insult Jews by twisting Shaul's words (yes, that same Paul who proclaimed, after his salvation experience, "I AM a Pharisee") to mean that their Jewishness was now but "dung". In that world view Jews' primary connection was now the Christian Church, and not with Israel (that chosen and beloved by G-d nation - that nation that Yeshua came to and always identified with, first and foremost, to this day and forever).

  2. Gene, it seems to be a rare occasion when we can agree! :-)

    I concur with your points about Christianity doing both good (preaching Yeshua as Messiah of Israel) and bad (leading Israel away from Torah).

  3. I think we can all agree that the best way to witness to someone is via positive actions of faith. Ancient Israel's obedience was to impact its neighbors (Deuteronomy 4:6), and so our obedience to the Lord is to similarly impact others.

    Christian missionizing of the Jewish people has been a widescale failure because of wanting to "just get the Jews saved." Yet the same missionizing has likewise been a failure among other groups as well. If it would instead focus on acts of kindness and service--a/k/a the social gospel--there might be more a difference made as people will come to Believers with those big life questions.

    I say that if you really want to reach out to the Jewish people, that your congregation or ministry find the most secular Jewish group you can find--like a humanitarian agency that helps terrorist victims--and send them a check on a regular basis. Let your witness to them be the congregational or ministry name that they see on the check, and then pray that God works His way on their hearts. I think such passive witnessing will have far more success than passing out tracts on the streets of Tel Aviv.

  4. Judah:

    Let me further add to your fire and get myself in trouble likely to boot. There is quite possibly a motive other than the Lord behind the activities of many Christian missions to the Jewish community: fundraising.

    Christians don't give to congregations that build mature communities. Many Messianic leaders have other jobs (true in my case as of January). Meanwhile, Christian missions to the Jews raise tons of money for largely ineffective and even harmful public stunts (tracts on the street).

    Being there for Jewish people who have needs doesn't make good publicity like handing out pieces of paper which get thrown in the trash most of the time (I know, I did it for 5 1/2 years).

    Derek Leman

  5. I think probably 90% of the time, the proclmaing of "messiah" in his many names and forms creates some sort of Hellenization/Gentilization for a Jew. This is a pretty serious violation of Torah.
    Whether or not these effects last is what really matters. I can certainly say, in cases I have witnessed personally, it usually retards (or better yet, goyisherizes) Jews for the most part, and it usually has very long-lasting or permanent effects.

    Is it worth it, for the supposed "salvation" in "christ" that they receive from a simple belief in a guy named "hey horse" (sus) in Hebrew?
    Not if you take the words of HaRav, The Master Yeshua's words to the rich (Jewish) man who asks him what he can do to earn eternal life. Yeshua asks him if he keeps the commands. He says yes, but he reveals to him two commands he was missing. To listen and obey (follow) the likened-to-Moshe Mashiach and the mitzvah of tzedaka (charity, which Yeshua says "atones for a mass of sins").
    Nor does it compute with the teachings of Yaakov HaTzadik ("James the Just"), brother of HaRav Yeshua, who tells us thatfaith without works is dead, that its nothingness.

    So its definitely not worth it. That's why I'm against it. The best witness of HaRav Yeshua that you can be to the Jewish people is a devout Torah-keeper, and a follower after every one of Yeshua's customs, halachot, teachings, traditions, and interpretations. That is what being a talmid is all about (that last piece of wisdom is thanks to Daniel Lancaster of Beth Immanuel).

    But anyway.. that's my shpiel on the topic. Good blog, bro!

    (Purim Sameach!!)

  6. Aaron...

    "I think probably 90% of the time, the proclmaing of "messiah" in his many names and forms creates some sort of Hellenization/Gentilization for a Jew. This is a pretty serious violation of Torah."

    That may be, but I am still glad I heard about Yeshua way back then, whatever the motives of the proclaimers - I DID in fact gain REAL Yeshua HaMaschiach (even if I didn't realize then or was taught that He still wants me to live as a Jew). He was and still is very real - and I am still following him after all these years. He didn't change, but I did - I've gotten to know HIM much better. G-d is able to make crooked paths straight. People may proclaim Messiah for many different reasons, some are not so pure and some are very wrong. Even Shaul wrote about this:

    "Some indeed preach Messiah from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the good news. The former proclaim Messiah out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Messiah is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. (Phil. 1:15-18)"

    Today, my job as a Jew is to live as a Jew and to proclaim the Jewish Messiah to Israel and to other nations through deeds and words.

  7. You all discussed different approaches to converting Jewish people to Messianic Judaism, so I am curious what tactic would convince you all to leave Messianic Judaism and become non-Messianic Jews?

    Would acts of kindness convince you to change your religious beliefs like one of you suggested could work on Jewish people? If you can't think of anything that could convince you to change your beliefs, then why do you think you can get Jewish people to change their beliefs, especially Jewish people who are educated about Judaism?

    You all are very educated about your religion, so it would probably be almost impossible to get you to change your beliefs, as far as I can tell.

    Kenneth Greifer

  8. Kenneth... welcome again to the discussion. Have you had a chance to revise some of the misinformation about Messianic Judaism on your website (the points which I've outlined to you the other day)?

    "I am curious what tactic would convince you all to leave Messianic Judaism and become non-Messianic Jews?"

    As you may have noticed, neither wholesale hatred not the vitriolic anti-missionary propaganda, nor legal or physical persecution (in Israel) have worked. Many of us Jews who happen to follow Yeshua as Israel's Maschiach have been rejected by our Jewish families and friends simply because of who we believe Messiah is. And yet, all this has failed to make us abandon our faith in the Messiah.

    What tactic will work? You tell us, Kenneth! You've been working at this for a while. Have you been at all successful in your mission?

    "If you can't think of anything that could convince you to change your beliefs, then why do you think you can get Jewish people to change their beliefs, especially Jewish people who are educated about Judaism?"

    Kenneth, not only do we think - WE ALREADY HAVE convinced many to follow the true Maschiach! At the same time, we don't believe that it's by our own wisdom and learning we are doing this - but G-d Himself convinces people. That's why there are so many Messianic Jews today as opposed to even 20 years ago.

    "You all are very educated about your religion, so it would probably be almost impossible to get you to change your beliefs, as far as I can tell."

    I don't think it's impossible for you to embrace the Jewish Messiah someday, Kenneth. I hope that you will.

    Question: Kenneth, what would have to happen for you to accept that Yeshua is the Messiah?



  9. Gene,

    Of course it varies from person to person, maybe I'm not as accurate in my mind's figure of the effect of bringing Yeshua (or a variant thereof) on Jews.

  10. Gene,

    You mention how Messianic Jews are persecuted in Israel and rejected by their families. If you think about it, if people followed the rules of the Torah in Israel, they would probably execute them for idol worship. I am not sure about this, but I think I am right. The Torah seems to allow idol worshipers to be treated pretty rough, so if you were alive in Israel in Biblical times, you would persecute them also, I assume. I am not saying that Messianic Jews should be executed as idol worshipers, I am just saying that it all depends on how people interpet things.

    That all sounds pretty mean, but if you believe in the Torah, then you know that religious differences were not exactly promoted by the Torah.

    You asked what tactics I think work for converting Messianic Jews. I have no idea, but I know that some of them do give up their Messianic beliefs and become non-Messianic Jews.

    You also asked if I fixed my book. I just changed the words "Messianic Judaism" to "Christianity". I also fixed up my very disorganized section on Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. I did not realize how bad they were.

    Kenneth Greifer

  11. Kenneth...

    "If you think about it, if people followed the rules of the Torah in Israel, they would probably execute them for idol worship."

    If you read Brit Hadasha / "New Testament" and brush up on the early history of the movement, the earliest Messianic Jews were not persecuted because of any idolatry on their part, neither were they accused of it. In fact, Messianic Jews hated idolatry and even taught Gentiles to shun it in strongest term. So, the idolatry accusation is wrong and grossly misapplied.

    Instead of "idolatry", the most you can accuse us of is following a "false" (in your mind) messiah. Of course, you will not get too far with that argument either - there have been numerous false messiahs throughout Jewish history (Judas of Galilee, Theudas, Menahem ben Judah, Simon bar Kokhba, Moses of Crete, Ishak ben Ya'kub Obadiah Abu 'Isa al-Isfahani, Yudghan, Serene, David Alroy, Nissim ben Abraham, Moses Botarel, Sabbatai Zevi, Jacob Joseph Frank, Menachem Mendel Schneerson).

    After Schneerson died, his disciples believed that he would be resurrected on a 3rd day (sounds familiar?). Some of the Lubavitchers within his group (and not just the fringe elements!) even viewed and probably STILL view him as a "divine being", endowed with G-d's essence and they are still eagerly awaiting his return and kingship. Still others claim that he's actually alive and well (presumably after being resurrected). Sounds familiar?

    While some in the Jewish community spoke out against the above (and rightly so!), I am yet to see anybody throw out these "believers" out of mainstream synagogues. And I don't see you speaking out against them (yet) - perhaps you should include them in your materials (in as much they are practicing "idolatry" as you define it).

    "You asked what tactics I think work for converting Messianic Jews. I have no idea, but I know that some of them do give up their Messianic beliefs and become non-Messianic Jews."

    A few do, you're correct. Brit Hadasha predicts that many will fall away and reject the true Messiah. Most MJs keep true to G-d's Promised One.

    "You also asked if I fixed my book. I just changed the words "Messianic Judaism" to "Christianity". I also fixed up my very disorganized section on Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. I did not realize how bad they were."

    Thank you, Kenneth - I appreciate it!


  12. Gene,

    You said that the first Messianic Jews were not considered idol worshippers. I think that the first ones did not believe J was G-d. I think the first ones just believed he was the Messiah only, and that would not be a sin. I know that you would probably disagree, but there is no way to know what the first Messianic Jews believed for certain.

    Maybe the fact that they were not considered idol worshipers is a good proof that the first Messianic Jews did not believe J was G-d.

    Kenneth Greifer

  13. Gene,

    You might be glad to hear this, but I am not going to comment here anymore hopefully because I have a lot of hand and wrist pain from typing, and I have decided to pretty much give up typing except for my book. I am a little addicted to the internet, but I have to stop.

    I also won't use the internet much hopefully because just using the computer hurts. You might say it is a divine punishment, but who knows?

    Kenneth Greifer

  14. Kenneth...

    "I also won't use the internet much hopefully because just using the computer hurts. You might say it is a divine punishment, but who knows?"

    I wish you well.


  15. Sorry to hear about your pain, Kenneth. That sucks. I'm a software developer who's on the computer typing all day long, so I feel a little bit of your pain.

  16. Judah- great minds think alike! Such a timely posting of that subject.

    I recently had a quick read of a book- I cannot remember the name or the author of the book, but it was some guy who, credit to him, has a ministry in Israel, speaks Hebrew, and understands Judaism.

    However, he is highly critical and stereotypical of Christian Zionism, tarring them all with the brush of "refusing to preach the gospel to Jews". As you point out, this is true for some groups, but not for all.

    I'm spokesperson for the group Australian Christians Supporting Israel (ACSI) . We are privileged to be able to hold meetings in the local Jewish Community Centre. We have a "no proselytising" policy which clearly states that having a reasoned, personal conversation with someone about your faith, or developing sincere relationships with a person of another faith does not constitute proselytising.

    But the fact that we have this policy probably tars us with that brush from these critics of "Christian Zionism".

    Back to this book (I'm chasing the title and author and will let you know shortly). There are words in there to the effect of "Zionists have allowed some Jews to die and be lost forever because they haven't been shown the gospel".

    Here's my take and it probably isn't very theological, whilst acknowledging the "great commission": Where do we Christians get the arrogance to assume a Jew who was gassed to death in WWII went to hell because some Billy Graham superChristian didn't preach "You got-ta know Jeeeezusssss...can I have an amen"!! to them? (Excellent parody you did of my fellowship there by the way Judah! LOL) Because they didn’t kneel down with one of us and pray the sinner’s prayer?

    There are stories of SS guards running the gas chambers hearing their victims sing traditional Jewish songs crying out for Messiah. Who says G-d didn't meet them at that point of need and show them the real messiah, before they breathed their last? Not the anglicised, westernised Jesus of the Church, in whose name so much pain had been brough to them, but the real Yeshua, their Jewish kinsman?

    When you hear stories of Muslim men meeting the real "Issa", Yeshua the Jewish saviour, by having dreams and visions, despite having never met a baptist missionary in their life, doesn't that put us in our place a little? Namely, G-d Himself can stand in the gap where there has been such evil done in the name of Christ, and clean up our mess because it's His desire none should perish?

    Am I departing from scripture here? Sorry for the long post.

    Cheers from Down Under and hope you had a happy Purim!

  17. When I have been asked by Jewish Believers what God will do with their ancestors (or even immediate relatives) who died without a profession of faith, I always tell them "Only God knows the intention of the human heart. Only He decides who enters into His Kingdom.. And I would say this to anyone who is not Jewish either, yet is uncertain of relatives who have passed on. (Of course I am an Arminian, so I do not think that God has predestined some for damnation like a Calvinist would.)

    If the possibility exists for natives who have never heard of the One True God, Jesus, or the Bible to somehow be redeemed--seeing His natural revelation and crying out to the Creator (Romans 1:19-20)--then I am sure that many Jews have encountered the Messiah.

  18. P.H.

    You stated it perfectly, my friend. I think it's great what you're doing with ACSI, it sounds like a righteous work for God's Kingdom. God bless you for that, PH.

    May He continue to use you in His service.

  19. JK,

    Those are some interesting thoughts. I once heard a guy, describing Yeshua's words in the gospel "no one comes to the Father but by me" as Messiah-as-doorway. That is, some grace prayer or sinners prayer isn't what's necessary. Rather, Messiah will say who comes to the Father; it's entirely up to the Messiah.

    It is very difficult, for me, to say that Jews put to death in Nazi gas chambers will not be with the Father or will not be considered righteous. I don't know. On the other hand, if one rejects Messiah, doesn't he reject God?

    Man. I would hope Messiah, in his exceeding grace and mercy, would let them into the Kingdom of God. As you said, only Messiah decides who will be in the Kingdom.

  20. The whole issue of the Holocaust and German anti-Semitism is very complicated, especially when viewed within the larger narrative of World War II. (I have a sister who absolutely loves to read about Winston Churchill, especially on his pro-Jewish and Zionist views.) I know people don't like to hear the "I don't know" answer about those who diligently called upon God for deliverance, but that is all a human being can really say.

    What I can tell you for sure is that I do not think that anyone who curses the Lord while dying is now in His presence.

    This is a very good exercise for us to understand, especially as Messianics, that those who will be considered "least" in God's Kingdom--for not following the Torah--is a determination entirely up to Him. We don't get to decide.. And, I think there may be many Christians, who while only observing the "moral law," will be greater than some of today's Messianics who forgot the Torah's imperatives of love and mercy.

    But again, that is all God's job--and none of us should want it. Having just finished a 62 page article on the intermediate state between death and resurrection, I am preparing to follow it up with one on eternal punishment. Not the most happy of subjects to be sure, but one that is pretty serious for those who cry out for salvation.

  21. BTW...Just to change up the tone of this blog, here are the picts my sister and I took last Summer when visiting the Churchill Cabinet Rooms in London:

    This is a MUST SEE if you ever decide to cross the pond. (Won't be going anywhere this year...thanks to the economy!)

  22. Cool photos, JK. I'd like to visit there sometime.

  23. Thanks JH, and JK for your comments following my post, it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

    As you say, JK, it's God's job to decide, and I'm so grateful it's not mine. Who wants that job?


  24. Interesting post, Judah. Of course you know that I disagree with you accepting Christ, but resisting becoming a part of his church. However, you bring up some really good points about many of the Christian churches today (which I agree with). I wish I had had more time to read and ponder your edifying post. We can have disagreements and still edify one another. I am thankful for that!

    I enjoy every interaction that I have ever had with you. It is amazing that when two believers debate, we can still glean from each other. It is never good just to argue to fight. I appreciate your willingness to not write me off. I never will never do that to you, either, because then I would not be challenged to grow in the truth of God's Word.


  25. Hey Tim.

    Yeah, I figured you and I would disagree regarding the Church.

    Thank you for the kinds words. We obviously have very different theology, but hey, let's at least be good examples of Messiah and not attack each other over doctrinal differences. :-) Each time we've talked, you've seemed like a really respectful, God-fearing guy. I like that.

    Take care, Tim. Probably see you this spring at one of the softball games.


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