A few new issues were brought up in the course of these discussions that are worth addressing here in public.
Firstly, a point was in the humanity of Muhammad: he glorified himself with riches, spoils of war, hundreds of wives (some of them very young, 13 years old or less). A few Muslims pointed out to me that having many wives was practices common in ancient times, even in Israel: David, Solomon both had many wives, and thus one can't consider it evil. While polygamy may not be truely evil -- especially in a time when so many women would die of childbirth -- the fact still remains that Muhammad exalted himself: like a spoiled child realizing he can get anything he wants, Muhammad created riches and worldly pleasures for himself through conquest, plundering, personal gain, riches and women, all in the creation of his invention of Islam.
Several Muslims rejected the notion that Islam was a new creation, but rather, a continuation of things of old. The problem is, for Islam to be a continuation of the Abrahamic faith, they have to denounce both Judaism and Christianity, claiming that Jews have changed the Old Testament to their liking; for Islam to be correct, Israel cannot be the people of God. Here Israelites were the people of God for more than 2000 years, then Muhammad came along and said, "oh, those Jews have changed it! We Arabs are the people of God!". So, for Islam to be a continuation of the Abrahamic faith in Yahweh, all of Scripture must be thrown out: first the Tenakh (Old Testament) because it has been changed by Jews, and second, the New Testament, because Jesus' messianic claims are blasphemous. In that sense, Islam is a continuation of the ancient faith, only when most of history is rewritten 2000 years after the fact.
"Worship one God,noone else",you call em God,we call HIm Allah,Hindus call HIM "Eshwar",different names but same person.
Oh, this is a doozie! I am honestly astonished to hear this coming from a Muslim; this "everybody has their own way to God" argument I hear often, primarily from universalist unitarians, pantheists, deists and other borderline secularists -- definitely not Muslims. What's more, most Muslims will assert that their God is not the same God as the Hindu gods: the whole ongoing volatile conflict in Pakistan between Hindus & Muslims is based around this very issue!
The topic of "are all gods really the same god" is a huge issue in itself, worthy of a few postings at least. For now, I will say that, for the believer in Messiah, and the Jewish believer in the God of Abraham, it's quite clear in Scripture whether all gods are the same god. While secularists and unitarians may not like the fact that not everyone is right and not everyone has the truth, I can't imagine God is losing sleep over their dislike of non-politically correct reality.
Didn`t Abraham warned His dad NOT to worship and create Idols?didnt David,Jacob spreaded teachings to ask Help from God only,rest are false entities?what Jesus tried to teach to Children of Israels,give me the difference in teaching to me.
Gladly. First, you're right: Jesus didn't teach people to worship idols. To go even further, Jesus' teachings were all confirmations of the teachings in the Tenakh/Old Testament. For example, the Torah teaches it is wrong to commit adultery. Jesus confirmed this and strengthened it by saying that if a man even lusts after a woman in his heart, he is committing adultery.
Unfortunately for Muslims, the idea that Jesus was just a regular old prophet, ala Muhammad, goes kaboom when one realizes that Jesus made blasphemous messianic claims: Jesus taught that he is the son of God, the Messiah, whose self-sacrifice on the cross atones for the sins of the world, fulfilling the Torah's sacrifices of lambs and goats, instead the Messiah being the perfect Lamb slain once and for all. He taught that the Torah was about him, the Psalms were about him, the writings of prophets in the Tenakh/Old Testament were about him; in essence, the God-inspired writings were all pointing to Him. He claimed to be the one prophesied to come in Scripture: the one all the prophets had prophesied would come so that the sins of humanity would be forgiven. That's a huge atomic bomb on Islamic teaching, which has us believe Jesus was a human only, not God, and definitely should not be worshipped as God. Contrast this with Jesus' own words, saying no one comes to God but by him, that he is the son of God, that he is the Messiah promised on the Tenakh. Obviously, these are blasphemous words, coming from a so-called prophet. Either Jesus is a blasphemous crazy man, or he is indeed the son of God, the one sent to take away the sins of the world. You can't have a half-way house of "Oh, Jesus was just a nice prophet";, such middle ground does not exist outside the imaginations of universalists.
for jews,David,Jacon are most important and beliving and followin them is enough to be a jew
I'm afraid you're mistaken. Jews do not follow David or Jacob. David was a psalmist who loved God, definitely not the Muhammad of Judaism. Jacob was the progenitor of Israel who also loved God. Again, definitely not the Muhammad of Judaism. Jesus was the Messiah who loved his Father in heaven, also not the Muhammad of Judaism, nor the Muhammad of Christianity. Where these figures had important roles in the eventual creation of religions based on the faith in God, they did not purposefully create a new religion, unlike Muhammad. Indeed, Christianity itself wasn't a seperate religion from Judaism until long after Jesus' death; the invention of the religion of Christianity -- especially Roman Catholicism -- can be credited to 4th century "Holy" Roman Emperors more than anything. But Islamics want to equate holy figures in other religions as prophets in order to validate Muhammad's self-proclaimed prophetic status, and yet, such generalizations do nothing but blur the line between truth and well-crafted fiction.
how can you say tht Islam is some new religion invented by a guy named Muhammad
I can say it because it's true: Islam was invented more than 500 years after Jesus, and more than 2500 years after Abraham. The faith borrowed ideas from both faiths, but claimed that the old faith was modified, and that this new faith was God's Own Religion® and the previous faiths were flawed. It matters little that Muhammad borrowed bits from the Tenakh and the New Testament, the fact remains that he knowingly and consciously invented a new religion that wasn't meant as a continuation of the previous faith in the God of Abraham, but instead, denouces the previous faiths as flawed and falsified by men, and announced that his new religion was a perfect one revealed to him by God. Contrast this with Jesus, who never started a new religion, saying the the original faith points to the Messiah (which, by the way, Jews won't deny, they will only deny that Jesus is the Messiah). Initially, the followers of Jesus were a sect of Judaism! It wasn't until the new man-made ritual religion of Christianity was truely invented a few hundred years later, when the the Roman Emperor Constantine declared the Roman Empire would be "Christian".
"Bless, O Allah, Muhammad and his people as Thou didst bless Abraham and his people. Thou art indeed Praiseworthy, the Exalted." give me some source that either yours or chiristianity religion covers and send blessings to these people?
Sure thing: Genesis 17 in the Christian and Jewish Bibles and you'll clearly see that God does indeed bless the Arab people.
It's a shared trait of the 3 Abrahmic faiths: Abraham and his descendants were blessed. Arabs are blessed to this day, with power, money from oil, and much influence around the world. Jews are blessed as well: despite persecution by Christians, the Holocaust, and numerous mini-holocausts, the Jewish people have survived 2000 years of this persecution -- quite an astonishing feat for any people group -- and have returned to the land God gave to them, Israel.
I question the veracity of the claim that Islam is interested in blessing the Jews. If Islam is truely interested in blessing the people of Abraham, which include Jews, I wonder then: why are so many in Islam bent on the destruction of not only Jews, but Christians as well? Why am I watching parades of Hamas bombers on my television, complete with explosives attached to their belts? Why do I read news every week about buses of civilians, pizza palors, and supermarkets being blown to pieces by Islamic zealots?
Do not say I am portraying Islam unfairly; even Islamic newspapers report the same stories, only labeling the bombers as freedom fighters, the massacres as successful offensive campaigns, and Israel as "the Zionist entity" which Islam refuses to acknowledge. Not everyone in the Islamic camp is so gung-ho zealous about defeating the enemies of Islam or its perceived enemies, or so the politcally correct folks will tell me. But it is apparent that either there's a majority that subscribes to these beliefs, or a very vocal minority that speaks louder than the majority.
All i can say is that people have gotta have guts to challenge one of your points, or at least don't realize how much you know. It's not something i'd ever intend to do ;-)
ReplyDeleteNo way Ash, Muslims know their stuff very well. I love debating with them. Most Muslims I've talked to are very knowledgeable when it comes to their faith and the Qur'an. In fact, most of them have memorized the entire book! More than I can say for myself with the Christian Bible...although memorizing your choice of holy book doesn't automatically make you a good or righteous person, I would say.
ReplyDeleteMuslims are also very zealous for God, far more than most Christians and Jews I know of. I think that's why there's a lot of warring coming from Islam, so many of them are zealous for God (or god, if you prefer), they'll do anything -- even the carrying out of violence -- against the perceived enemies of Islam and Islam's god. It seems to me, however, that if Islam truely believes it is a continuation of the faith in the God of Abraham, then it is pointless to carry out war against other faiths in the God of Abraham, in particular, Judaism and Christianity. I guess a Muslim would have to explain the reasoning behind the violence against Jews and Christians; it appears to myself as nothing shorter than the biggest movement of persecution and religious intolerance the world has seen since the medieval Roman Catholic Church.
It's just a shame that many of them miss the truth of Christ. If Scripture happens to be right, then I'm looking forward to seeing both Jews and Muslims come together in peace, in the Messiah. Until then, sadly, it seems it will be a rocky road, especially in Israel. With the deep-running hatred and constant violence in Israel between Jews and Arabs, it seems we need something big, something divine; a little messianic intervention, before there can be peace in Israel.
True dat, bro'!
ReplyDeleteThe important think to remember about Islam was that it was founded by a war criminal. First and foremost, Muhammad was a warlord, who, like Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan, founded and created a huge empire as part of a megalomaniac desire to get more and more riches.
ReplyDeleteUnlike Alexander and Khan, Muhammad created his own religion to help justify it. Deep inside the Muslim psyche is a desire to conquer the world and to convert (or kill) the infidel). This is just not compatible with civilization, nor are the religion's strange customs and demands (which include the idea that raping children is OK and a rabid mad-dog hatred of Jews).
Anonymous, I am unaware of any such writings in the Qur'an condoning rape, especially child rape. Care to back that up?
ReplyDeleteWe should be careful when talking about other religions, especially Islam. The point isn't to bash Islam or Muslims, but point out where they error and point them to the Messiah.
Judah
ReplyDeletehehe,thanks for creating another thread for my replies,should i say I(an ordinary muslim,who doesn`t know much about islam like you know about your own religion,but enough to reply you :) made you to create a seprate thread :>,anyway,let me thankyou for refreshing things up,its been long time i talked some non muslim about confliction between different religions,let me try to answer one by one,today we r not more than 6 or 5.5 in average and avg age is 50
you said:
Firstly, a point was in the humanity of Muhammad: he glorified himself with riches, spoils of war, hundreds of wives (some of them very young, 13 years old or less)
Not Hundreds,we are not talking about Solomon etc who kept hundreds of wives,regarding Ayesha,the wife of Muhammad(SAW) who was around 10 years old at time of marriage, many of non muslims specially aethists make fun by saying Muhammad was child molestor,marriaged with young ayesha,let me answer this in two parts
1)there was no child of Muhammad(SAW) from Ayesha,since there was no physical contact
2)even if laugh that why did he marry if therw was no such contact OR consider it a lie,let me give you a scientific fact,you would be aware of that when women reaches to puberty,one can establish relationship with her(regardless of different countries laws about it),in ancient arab times,A woman could reach to pubery at age of 9 and women could birth babies even at age of 70s,is it not true that in today`s worlds,young girls have reeached to puberty at age of 12?so if they can reach at age of 12 then why not 9? MAn is changing from the birth of Adam,is it not true,thats what your darwin`s theory talk about as well,Adam(AS),as i read in quran was "60 hands" tall and got age of 1,000 years
-thats all i wanted to say about Muhammad(AS) wife ayesha,i gave you reason but stil for my own satisfaction and kowledge,i would confirm more about physical relationship b/w ayesha and muhammad(SAW),we,muslims unlike others dont claim to know everything,if we dont know we admit it rather hesitate.
like a spoiled child realizing he can get anything he wants, Muhammad created riches and worldly pleasures for himself through conquest, plundering, personal gain, riches and women, all in the creation of his invention of Islam.
Man now i am really intrested to know your source of knowledge about Islam,i dont hesitate to say your source is entirely biased and wrong,who said he led a luxirious life? did u read this in bible?you might ask why i refered bible,coz since bible is being changed ,one can add thing of his own intrest,so maybe you read a version in which some Islam basher talked such thing about Muhammad?let me know your source.
if you ever try to read the life style of Muhammad(SAW),he and his family used to starve,when he migrated to Medina,his own was buikt with dates tree branches,his pillow was nothing but a brick,YES,HE Was offered by GOD to led a luxiorious life like Solomon,but He rejected,i don`t say Solomon was wrong,that was Allah`s will and offcourse Solomon`s choice to spread God`s words by leading luxirious life,
give me your source then we would discuss further about life style,regardiong wives,only Khedijah was the richest business woman and after Muhammad was decleared as Prophet,both of them spent all money for spreading Islam.
The problem is, for Islam to be a continuation of the Abrahamic faith, they have to denounce both Judaism and Christianity, claiming that Jews have changed the Old Testament to their liking;
i gve you a link on ur old thread,Dialoghe b/w chiristian and muslim,if you have read it before answering me then you never raised question,there are solid and i should say stupid confliction b/w old and new testments,wrong figures etc..read it out and get back to me.
Oh, this is a doozie! I am honestly astonished to hear this coming from a Muslim; this "everybody has their own way to God"
i didn`t say Own way of GOd,dont twist my words,i said Same God but different names in differnet languages,in english you call God,with capital G,because God can`t be plular but yes "gods" could be,referrin ancient greek and hindu terminology
What's more, most Muslims will assert that their God is not the same God as the Hindu gods: the
quite right,but you are not aware of differnece in terms of terminology,i am surprised though you guys are very closed to indians by every means.
anyway,actually Hindus belief is very weird,let me try to explain in simple words as i am not so much knowledgeable about hindu belief but know enuff to clarify difference
Hindus refer two terminlogies,one is Eshwar,a Hindi or Sanskirit word,which is used for Allah or you call God,no differencd at all,just a hindi terminology,
the second term they use is bhagwan,again is for gods,if u notice i used the term "gods" that is,they refer to idols as gods,bhagwan could be many
since they are idols and they keep idols even in their pocket,whats the logic behing these two different kinds of gods,they say that God could be in anyform,since it could be anyform then God comes inform of idols,and they worship gods for sake of concentration,they have gods like Lord Krishna, Om etc,they say God forbid,God`s spirit are in their lords(gods) thatswhy they worship the,but its a utter fact,they do believe in one God or Allah.you may ask any hindu about difference,i woudnt be surprised if they are not aware of it,u shud rather read their books directly ,one of the biggest problem among non muslims are they dont try to gointo source,they rather believe in ppl`s word,for instance ,many westerners see islam from the eyes of Osama and Taliban,heck they just appeared in late 90s,there were no OSama hundred years ago,one should try to find out the difference b/w beliefs by reading the sources like Quran,Gospen,(Geeta,RgWeed){for Hindus}
Hindus also believe in Resurrection they say a person comes back to world 7 times,while muslims believe in life after death and that would happen only at time of judgment.
YOu believe or not We muslim follows same belief given by Abraham,moses or David,no difference,yes muslims do say or i rather say Islamic teachings say that iSlam came into being coz children of israels tempered the orignal writings,if they didnt do it,there was no need of Muhammad(SAW) and Islam at all,and if you say there was no changing,i would just laugh that u r just kidding with me. as i mentioned,we dont have concept of old and new testmants,why its like that in christians?and i myself has read the difference between different versions. you mentioned that Muhammad claimed that jews and christians are wrong and we arabs are right,well tell me one thing,why there is a difference b/w chiristians and jews ?
Christians say Jesus is son of God?why?coz he was born by Mary with no father?just coz of this?if its like that then Adam should be the Grand son of God?coz adam wasnt even born by a mother?why christians advertise jesus as son of God? and by the way Jesus never said He was son of God,i would try to give you reference from bible as well,what bible says about first words Jesus spoke?in Quran its clearly mentioned that when marry pointed her fingure towards jesus,he said I am creature of God like others,not a son.
Same goes with jews belief,they say Uzair(AS),son of God?(sorry i dont know wha you call Uzair in english,do teach me His name)
just coz He was memorised old torah which was forgotten by israelites and they started thinking He is son of God,there is even confiliction for jesus,one i mentioned above.
Islamics want to equate holy figures in other religions as prophets in order to validate Muhammad's self-proclaimed prophetic status, and yet, such generalizations do nothing but blur the line between truth and well-crafted fiction.
I would like qoute a bible verse here
God said to Moses, on whom be peace: " I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers, I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them 'everything I command him" (Bible, New International Version, Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse 18).
for deail read here
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=36998
if I suppose Muhammad(SAW) isn`t prophet /messenger then A/c to your own bible,which person has met the requirment?you can claim same for Jacob,Issac etc as they all had gone before Jesus,bible appeared after Jesus then "WHO" is being referred in your bible?who`s that guy?if you follow your own book,forget Islam, etc then a.c to your own belief,where is tht man?where is he hiding,are you gonna say it would be ummmm Jesus?who could come later before judgment day?but hey..you urself admitted that jesus is nt prophet,nor issac nor jacob,then why a/c to ur bible god says to moses "Prophet Like you",hey do u accept Moses as Prophet ,if No then there is no point to debat that u r even rejecting your own book,so let me come to the point,so a.c to you
Issac-> Not a Prophet
Jacob->Not at all
Jesus->hey hey are u crazy?hes son of God
then who`s left?if a/c to you Muhammad or muslims call every all these noble guys as prophet just for sake of justification as Muhammad as Prophet then why bible talking this?
If u even follow your own belief then you should follow the above mentioned verse as well,the bible is talking about Muhammad(SAW) only,i can give you reference other bible verses which talks about Muhammad(SAW),but i would keep it for someother time..
I would discontinue here,as i want your answer about this bible verse,after your reply i would qoute more bible`s verses here
as far as sucide bombing etc,its a political topic but in short i would just say,that sucide is not permitted in anyform in islam therefore sucide bombing is haram and not allowed,i gave your islamic reason behind it,what others say it not related with islam,why do they go for such horrible act,it goes beyond topic,they say that palestine is their land and you say its for jews,i would just say that jews were not the first nation on face of earth,before jews or say before religion of Judah,others people were living too then how can israelities claim for the land though it was owned by someone else before them?,anyway different topic so woudnt continue it,as far as haterd against christians and jews,not its wrong,there is no such haterd,actually christians and jews havnt accepted islam and they keep coming up with new ridiculous things everytime like creating false quranic verses by jews and sending missionaries by christians,though they dont know that islam is not a Sunday religion like others,neither islam lies in a book(Quran)only,its a way of likea,A human like manual,if you read quran without considering it a book of muslims,you would find it useful for mankind,in Quran,God talks more about humans rather himself and religion itself,you mentioned urself that muslims have memorized book entirely,yes Thanks to God,even after various attempts by jews and christians to alter quran and cameup with jewish version of quran,(its not their fault,they did samewith Gospel and cameup with their own version named bible) and due to this alteration Quran came as final and unedited verdiict of God,the same GOd who created Abraham,Moses and David.
if muslims hadnt memorised the quran,then you could also see different versions of quran,like Mr.blah blah version of Quran,King blah blah version of Quran,attempts were made but since muslims memorized it word by word,character by character so it was safe from all alteration.
p.s:i didnt know when u made the post,i had visited couple of tiimes i made the reply,so whenever u reply me,do let me know,u can contact me via my blog
http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan u can use contact page,due to spam i cant give email here and i didnt find ur email address here at all
regards
adnan siddiqi
Anonymous, I am unaware of any such writings in the Qur'an condoning rape, especially child rape. Care to back that up
ReplyDeleteread here
http://www.crescentlife.com/articles/islamic%20psych/rape_and_incest_islamic_perspective.htm
Hi, adnan siddiqi. It's a small world, isn't it ? Judah, if you want to email this guy, I can pass it on for you, you can email me via CP, if nothing else. I've addressed most of these points with him though.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't understand here is that Islam claims to be the successor to Jesus, but they seem to reject close to everything He ever said. Surely that's a self defeating position. Either they believe in Jesus ( which makes them followers of a false prophet ), or they don't ( but they claim to be built on Him, so they cannot stand without Him ). It's fascinating stuff, I've been doing a lot of reading over the last few days, that's for sure.
We follow everyone from Adam to Muhammad including jesus,issac and Jacob but yes we don`t believe in the teachings(false teachings) which were added later in bible versions by name of Jesus,we believe in orignal teachings of all prophets including jesus,we are bless to every child of Abraham in our prayers.even i showed you reference from your own bible about MUhammad`s advent but you ignored it like other jews and christians, the word Muhammadim is mentioned in Hebrew version of Bible,this guy judah can verify itself,this Muhamamd was not noone but son of Abdullah,was born in Mecca which was referred as Bacca in Psalm .
ReplyDeleteJews know that the prophet they werw waiting for or was promised to them had already come in world but they dont accept it,deny it,reason is He belongs to Family of Ishmael,whom they dont accept and Godforbid calls illegal son of Abraham(AS),and how could you(chrisitan) can believe in words of jews,these are same(Children of israel) who killed Zakriah,who murdered Jhon the Baptist and they according to your own bible gave you news that Jesus was *died* though He was lifted upwards when he was live
Chrisitian Garus,you need lots of reading
P.S: Judah,am still waiting for your reply,i am not in hurry though,
i found an intresting article while browing:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.irf.net/irf/comparativereligion/middle/atheist/existence.htm
it would answer about your statment tht quran is nothing but modified version of stories mentioned in Bible ,torah etc
the things mentioned in Quran wasnt known to man at tht time,read yourself in the article,its for reference for you,and give me reference of any such thing mentioned in bible or torah
Adnan, you said,
ReplyDelete"we don`t believe in the teachings(false teachings) which were added later in bible versions by name of Jesus."
Firstly, where is your evidence that Christians modified our own Scripture? Why would we do that? What motive would we have for modifying our own Scripture? That's akin to me saying Muslims modified the Qu'ran so that Muhammed would be a special prophet. Likewise, Christians didn't modify Scripture so that Jesus would be the messiah; that is in the original writings: indeed, we have non-Christian historical writings (see the writings of the historian Josephus, or the anti-Christian writings of the Talmud, for example) that confirm that Jesus did exist and proclaimed himself to be the son of God. Despite the Jewish Talmud hating Jesus and proclaiming him to be a crazy man (so that the Jews wouldn't follow Him), the Talmud confirms Jesus did call himself the Messiah and the son of God. The historian Josephus records it, the Jewish Talmud confirms it, and our Scripture guarantees it. Only Islam has this false teaching that Jesus existed *but* all of the records of his works and all the things said by him were added.
If Jesus claimed to be the son of God, as the New Testament, the writings of historians, and the Jewish writings of the Talmud all confirm, then Jesus cannot be the man Islam wants him to be! No, Jesus either is the Messiah and the son of God, or he is a crazy man. The Islamic middle ground belief is an invention of Islam; indeed, only Muslims adhere to the belief that Jesus was a prophet but not a messiah.
"We follow everyone from Adam to Muhammad including jesus"
No you don't. You reject Jesus, and try to smooth things over by calling him a prophet. Jesus wasn't a prophet: every writing we have of Jesus talks of him as Lord, master, messiah, son of God: that is blasphemous stuff coming from a prophet! The whole point of Jesus' coming and his death was to sacrifice himself for the sins of the world! What do you want to say, Adnan, that his death was pointless? Or that his death was by accident? Or that his death does not atone for sins? Or what, do you fool yourself into thinking all these things were added? No, historically and Scripturally, we know that these things weren't added.
There is a problem that Islam conveniently ignores: atonement for sins. Where is the atonement for sin, Adnan? Does Muhammed atone for sin? We know that atonement for sin requires the shedding of blood. This was true before the Messiah came, in the form of sacrifices of bulls, goats, and lambs, as commanded in the Law of Moses. This is still true after the Messiah came: only now, we have the perfect sacrifice lamb -- Jesus -- who's death atones for the sin of the world.
"Jews know that the prophet they werw waiting for or was promised to them had already come in world but they dont accept it..."
Yes, this is true. The Hebrew prophet Isaiah writes in Scripture (in Isaiah 53):
"He was condemned to death without a fair trial. Who could have imagined what would happen to him? His life was taken away because of the sinful things my people had done. He wasn't dishonest or violent, but he was buried in a tomb of cruel and rich people. The LORD decided his Servant would suffer as a sacrifice to take away the sin and guilt of others."
Adnan, this is the person from God whom Israel was and still is waiting for. Who is the person? Muhammed? Did Muhammed take away the sins of the world by his sacrificial death? Or did his death take away the sins of the world? Did Muhammed fulfill the prophecies that all of Israel would be saved? Did he fulfill the Law of Moses by atoning for the sin of the nation? Was he born of a virgin? Did he live his life with love for the world, to the point of giving up his life the world? Did Muhammed's life allow the rest of the world outside of Israel to come to God? Did he fulfill any of the 700+ prophecies in the Hebrew Scripture about the Messiah? Did Muhammed descend from the tribe of Judah, as prophesied in Hebrew Scripture the Messiah would come from?
No! No to all of these!
So, who is this person spoken of in Hebrew Scripture? Jesus! His death is the one of the perfect lamb, the only person to never sin, yet He was killed for the sin of the world, so that the world, everyone from Jew to Arab to gentile, can come to God, because our sins are forgiven; Jesus has taken our punishment with his own death. He is the one who fulfilled the Hebrew Scriptures; NOT by claiming the Hebrew Scriptures are lies (as Islam claims) but by validating and strengthening the Hebrew Scriptures, upholding the Hebrew Torah and fulfilling the Hebrew prophets.
Adnan, you said,
"and how could you(chrisitan) can believe in words of jews,these are same(Children of israel) who killed Zakriah,who murdered Jhon the Baptist and they according to your own bible gave you news that Jesus was *died* though He was lifted upwards when he was live."
How can I believe in the words of Jews? Oh, I don't know, maybe that Jesus himself was a Jew? Or maybe the fact that Jesus's first followers were all Jews? Or maybe that nearly every writing of every book in the New Testament and Old Testament (Hebrew Scripture) is from the children of Israel? Or maybe that Israel is the chosen people as recorded in both Christian and Hebrew Scripture (both of which predate your false Islamic writings in the Qu'ran). Adnan, that particular comment of yours of smacks of anti-Jewish propaganda prevalent in the Arab world today.
Yes, Jews killed John the Baptist, and combined with Romans, killed Jesus as well. Well praise God for that! Because by Jesus' death, my sins are forgiven. By Jesus' life, I can live with love towards others. Jesus' words tell me that the greatest pieces of all of Hebrew Scripture were to love others and love God; He said upon those 2 commandments all of Hebrew Scripture rests.
Contrast that with Muhammed, who has given me nothing, only telling me to reject Scripture (both Hebrew and Christian) and to conquer the world and force submission to his version of God. That is not godly, and that is why I reject your false religion of Islam.
I have been busy in few things here,before i go to reply you,i would like to wrap up your old posts,i want to ask following
ReplyDelete1)you think Quran is man-made and no God`s words
if Yes
2)then how would you compare HUman knowledge and intelligence of that time with current age?
waiting...
Contrast that with Muhammed, who has given me nothing, only telling me to reject Scripture (both Hebrew and Christian) and to conquer the world and force submission to his version of God. That is not godly, and that is why I reject your false religion of Islam.
ReplyDeleteif you would have readly gone thru Quran,then yu really never said that Islam represts another version of God,read what`s said in Quran:
(AlAnkabut.046)
And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
so it clears whether our God is different than your God..
Quran merely discuss about 5-10% about old events(Messengers like Jesus etc and old civilizations),rest covers lots of things,fom Science to Govt,therefore i don`t believe your claim holds any evidence that Quran is all about repeating old stories.
i odnt deny Quran talks about people passed before Muhammad(SAW),Quran cant change the history,we cant call David(AS) to JEsus(AS).
There is no force submission at all,read here
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.
what Prophet(SAW) says Himself:
"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)
"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)
"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)
"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)
"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)
hope it clears...
i would suggest you to read following and make your comments:
ReplyDeletehttp://post.queensu.ca/~jjl/islam.html
I would like to find out more about the last testment mentioned by Andrew Weil in redgards the Jewish Reglion. This has nothing to do with not possessions, but is to family about passing on your values. I can't find it on the internet, and I have looked everywhere. I'm not Jewish in this life but was Jewish in some other life.
ReplyDelete