tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post5284025171226786361..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: FFOZ.ConcludeJudah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-49051766166401411272011-02-24T19:46:57.330-06:002011-02-24T19:46:57.330-06:00Boaz suggests that we should treat each other how ...Boaz suggests that we should treat each other how we would like to be treated, perhaps he should also suggest this concept to his Education Director about how to treat people in leadership at a congregation when they take a sabbatical due to changes that foreshadowed the 'theological shift.' Unfortunately said Education Director chose to disfellowship us and commit motzi shem ra instead. Boaz, there seems to be a log in FFOZ's eye. <br /><br />Judah. Please feel free not to post this if you think its too inflamatory...Tami Breazealenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-22044042134184284672011-01-24T17:03:43.121-06:002011-01-24T17:03:43.121-06:00Clif,
Why don't you ask yourself and see if t...Clif,<br /><br />Why don't you ask yourself and see if they answer....<br /><br />Been there, done that.....Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-5945122039237695492011-01-24T13:31:35.628-06:002011-01-24T13:31:35.628-06:00Good. grief.
I would kindly suggest that all of t...Good. grief.<br /><br />I would kindly suggest that all of the "anonymouses" above direct your questions and accusations regarding the education and ministry at First Fruits of Zion to this link. https://ffoz.org/_forms/contact/contact.html<br /><br />People are saying things without knowing facts and making ridiculous statements that are all likely based solely in the rumor mill, and it drives me crazy to think that this could be the proper way for the people of God to behave and voice criticism.Cliff.Chttp://heavenisnear.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-18253827539854846472011-01-24T13:19:38.491-06:002011-01-24T13:19:38.491-06:00As far as I can tell, I have not seen the finished...As far as I can tell, I have not seen the finished product only a booklet FFOz put out, at least in one instant their translation is faulty.Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-14904276755415739602011-01-24T10:23:41.164-06:002011-01-24T10:23:41.164-06:00FFOZ is presently translating the Bible into Engli...FFOZ is presently translating the Bible into English for corn's sake! Somebody better be interested in where they went to school!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65203975907264585302011-01-24T07:10:38.642-06:002011-01-24T07:10:38.642-06:00No Gene, it is not me. I do not hide behind pseud...No Gene, it is not me. I do not hide behind pseudonyms. I also don't have an issue with FFOz's education. The only problem I have with them is that they engage in theological gymnastics.Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-80968081902171440662011-01-24T00:21:20.622-06:002011-01-24T00:21:20.622-06:00Hey Gene, criticize Hegg all you want for getting ...Hey Gene, criticize Hegg all you want for getting a "Baptist" degree--at least he put his money where his mouth is in terms of education. FFOZ has done how many millions a year...with no formal training...?<br /><br />A.T.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-30002314140065646352011-01-23T23:38:48.560-06:002011-01-23T23:38:48.560-06:00"Gene, the FFOZ teachers don't seem to ha..."Gene, the FFOZ teachers don't seem to have what is needed to even teach elementary school in America. Enough said!"<br /><br />Dan, is that you:)?Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-17090305744828904882011-01-23T23:28:08.053-06:002011-01-23T23:28:08.053-06:00Gene, the FFOZ teachers don't seem to have wha...Gene, the FFOZ teachers don't seem to have what is needed to even teach elementary school in America. Enough said!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-25276714214718568622011-01-23T23:23:58.605-06:002011-01-23T23:23:58.605-06:00"The issue needs to be kept public and not on..."The issue needs to be kept public and not on your blog, Gene. One Law teachers like Tim Hegg actually have real degrees, but Boaz Michael and the FFOZ teachers do not. This is something that should be considered by everyone in this debate."<br /><br />I think that FFOZ should address your accusation. However, three points come to mind:<br /><br />1. Until fairly recently Tim Hegg used to work in conjunction with FFOZ and published many of his materials through them. So, one could say that at least some of their materials were from "degreed" teachers like Hegg (I've only known FFOZ for the last two years). It's safe to assume that they had other degreed contributors.<br /><br />2. Apparently, your vaunted One Law teacher considered FFOZ to be a quality outlet for his own ideas until they had a falling out. Perhaps his standards were not as high as yours when considering which educational outlet to affiliate with. Did you criticize them for not being qualified to teach when FFOZ were still "One Law"?<br /><br />3. Tim Hegg has a degree from a Baptist Seminary. He has not had any formal Jewish education or rabbinical training. How exactly does this qualify him to teach on matters pertaining to Judaism and Torah vs any other Evangelical teacher?Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-31677910705457248232011-01-23T23:00:02.782-06:002011-01-23T23:00:02.782-06:00The issue needs to be kept public and not on your ...The issue needs to be kept public and not on your blog, Gene. One Law teachers like Tim Hegg actually have real degrees, but Boaz Michael and the FFOZ teachers do not. This is something that should be considered by everyone in this debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-86995584455109251982011-01-23T22:39:40.978-06:002011-01-23T22:39:40.978-06:00"On what basis do you make this claim? One ca..."On what basis do you make this claim? One can look at FFOZ materials for the past ten years and notice that this ministry never tells you where their teachers went to college. A glaring omission if you want to be an educator..."<br /><br />I am not making any claims - I am just telling you what "I thought" of them since I found out about them two years ago when they were still "One Law". I know that they have stuff writers that cull information from various Christian and Jewish sources. I know that they work with contributing authors and have people who serve on a review board. Beyond that I am not privy to any inside information. If you know something that I don't that you think I should know, you can e-mail me privately (via my blog).Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-24428125253071697262011-01-23T22:10:50.922-06:002011-01-23T22:10:50.922-06:00@Gene: "Even in their OL/TH days I thought th...@Gene: "Even in their OL/TH days I thought that FFOZ did a great job researching and producing their materials."<br /><br />On what basis do you make this claim? One can look at FFOZ materials for the past ten years and notice that this ministry never tells you where their teachers went to college. A glaring omission if you want to be an educator...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-91186965650779043832011-01-22T13:40:30.137-06:002011-01-22T13:40:30.137-06:00Hang in there Judah. Nothing strengthens your arg...Hang in there Judah. Nothing strengthens your argument more than having certain people argue against it. I pray that you will continue to take the high road as we have few pockets in the MJ world where we see that done.Messiah's Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08980847043588208916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-61304494481635379732011-01-22T13:36:43.352-06:002011-01-22T13:36:43.352-06:00In the world of television, there is the phrase &q...In the world of television, there is the phrase "Jumping the Shark" when describing a show that has stayed on the air too long and has resorted to the ridiculous to keep the show going. <br /><br />The specific "Jumping the Shark" occurred on Happy Days and it was indeed the Fonz that "Jumped the Shark". Most experts believe that was the end of "THE FONZ" as well as the career of Henry Winkler who played him.<br /><br />I am curious if that was the allusion that you had in mind? :)Messiah's Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08980847043588208916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-54655633398116212532011-01-21T14:41:21.510-06:002011-01-21T14:41:21.510-06:00OK- the FONZ is just awesome. In fact, sometimes I...<i>OK- the FONZ is just awesome. In fact, sometimes I picture Boaz on a motorcycle with Torah scrolls and various publications flying off the back as he zooms down the road... </i><br /><br />That would be funny. I wonder if Boaz has a secret fantasy to ride a chopper and experience the "freedom of the road"? :DJameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-47608269861179447752011-01-21T13:33:46.037-06:002011-01-21T13:33:46.037-06:00"you've added nothing of value to this di..."you've added nothing of value to this discussion"<br /><br />I am still going through this , and other blogs with a fine tooth comb and a magnifying glass to find your valuable contributions....<br /><br />Have a great Shabbat.Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-9544211432857680682011-01-21T13:22:27.896-06:002011-01-21T13:22:27.896-06:00Dan, once again, you've added nothing of value...Dan, once again, you've added nothing of value to this discussion - just more of the same old tired baseless taunting and goading.<br /><br />I even had One-Law people e-mail me privately telling me to ignore you. Which I fully intend to do.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-64481876960269001552011-01-21T13:21:16.489-06:002011-01-21T13:21:16.489-06:00"While I respect much about OL (yes I said th..."While I respect much about OL (yes I said that), BE, Derek L, Gene, James, Dan, Judah, and others that have contributed to these discussions none of them speak for or define FFOZ. "<br /><br />They don't have too. FFOZ's definition and beliefs are out there for all to read. The problem is, when someone is trying to debunk them, they are arrogantly decline a debate, which leaves us with the feeling that they have no answers.<br /><br />When an organization pushes Gentiles to obey Torah commands "only if they want" and backs this belief with a conceren for Jewish assimilation, said organization cannot claim scholarly teaching.Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-2323718719195307082011-01-21T13:07:35.587-06:002011-01-21T13:07:35.587-06:00" I will have to write a nice post over the w..." I will have to write a nice post over the weekend:) Stay tuned..."<br /><br />How could you? When you are preoccupied in chasing gentiles out of your Synagogue? LOL!Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-64309402391757605752011-01-21T13:06:44.137-06:002011-01-21T13:06:44.137-06:00I approve of the Fonz. Also, Fozzy Bear. Waaka waa...I approve of the Fonz. Also, Fozzy Bear. Waaka waaka waaka.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-26377412692604154382011-01-21T12:53:12.192-06:002011-01-21T12:53:12.192-06:00OK- the FONZ is just awesome. In fact, sometimes I...OK- the FONZ is just awesome. In fact, sometimes I picture Boaz on a motorcycle with Torah scrolls and various publications flying off the back as he zooms down the road... <br /><br />And isn't there a FOZZY Bear??? I bet he'd have something to say about all of this... ;)<br />kAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-49085426305798164702011-01-21T12:34:33.475-06:002011-01-21T12:34:33.475-06:00Thanks Gene, I am looking forward to the post.
No...Thanks Gene, I am looking forward to the post.<br /><br />Not speaking for BE, my personal understanding and practice aligns with how traditional orthodox/conservative Jews view it.<br /><br />That is basically -- the seven noahide laws are all they non-jews HAVE to keep. That doesn't mean they can't do more. The main caveats are:<br /><br />1. Don't say your a Jew if your not.<br /><br />2. Don't say you have replaced Judaism or are now equal to Jews in regards to role and responsibility (in the case of OL/TH -- this of course would be laughable in traditional Judaism). They wouldn't have an issue with you taking on more, but would question... why do it?<br /><br />3. Certain Jewish rituals such as Bar/Bat Mitzvah wouldn't be allowed... again why do it?<br /><br />My assumption is that BE is at least fairly similar to this view since I would think that traditional sources were consulted in the forming of these opinions.zayinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65327346560530483172011-01-21T11:42:33.578-06:002011-01-21T11:42:33.578-06:00Oh good grief, I just realized that I'm doing ...Oh good grief, I just realized that I'm doing it again. I'm getting tied up in the details. Need to <a href="http://searchingforthelightonthepath.blogspot.com/2011/01/ten-words.html" rel="nofollow">get back to basics</a>.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-55933959124293184642011-01-21T11:40:03.491-06:002011-01-21T11:40:03.491-06:00It brings up a good question, though. If Bilateral...It brings up a good question, though. If Bilateral Ecclesiology describes two "tracks" for Messianic discipleship, one for Jewish Messianics and the other for Christians, what would BE's stance be on Christians resting on the Sabbath, eating at least "kosher-style", and praying with tzitzit and tefillin? Is BE silent on these matters?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.com