tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post5213286923961214221..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Conversations of Zeal: Part 2Judah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-6246923047473402022008-05-18T18:42:00.000-05:002008-05-18T18:42:00.000-05:00Efrayim,"...among you is standing someone whom you...Efrayim,<BR/><BR/>"...among you is standing someone whom you do not know. He is the one coming after me (Yeshua)..."<BR/><BR/>The above is a reference to Yeshua being a Pharisee, because as I've explained before, Yeshua was not literally there. If you read a few verses after, in verse 29, it says:<BR/><BR/>"<B>The next day</B> Yochanan saw Yeshua coming to him and he said, 'Behold, the Lamb of Eloah who takes away the sins of the world!'"<BR/><BR/>The main purpose of this discussion about Rabbi Yeshua being a Pharisee is to break the misconceptions and lack of understanding about the Phraisees and the modern offspring of Pharisaic Judaism, Orthodox Judaism. Is everything within it perfect? No, not so, and every Rabbi who has disagreed with another Rabbi (every Rabbi disagrees with another Rabbi in some, usually many ways) would agree - otherwise they would not have argued with other Rabbis.<BR/><BR/>Yeshua's Judaism was perfect, this we know, because Yeshua made no mistakes. Therefore, looking at Yeshua's teachings and paralleling and contrasting them to other teachings in Judaism can show which teachings were right and wrong. Hillel Pharisaism and Essene Judaism (especially the spiritual teachings of the Essenes) are very close to Yeshua's teachings more than any other sect of Judaism, or any other branch of a sect.<BR/><BR/>People could also know Yeshua by the Torah (which is like the Ruach HaKodesh written on a scroll), like Nakdimon and Yosef did - as well as many, many others undoubtedly. Can one really draw much of a difference at all between the Ruach HaKodesh and the Torah?<BR/><BR/>You're right, Yeshua's purpose was not to be part of any group of Jews - but he was. Whether or not that was his purpose means nothing. Whether or not he could be is a different argument. And definitely, he could be. If he had to be a Jew, it wouldn't be a surprise that he would be raised in one of the most righteous sects of Judaism of his day. Clearly, he was raised in Pharisaism - as clearly as Yochanan was raised in the Essene community. Otherwise, why would Yeshua be called a Rabbi (a Pharisaic title), teach in a Pharisaic/Rabbinic manner, and use teachings and teaching methods so identical to those of Rabbi Hillel?<BR/><BR/>As for Rabbi Shaul, he was also a Pharisee of the School of Hillel. Gamaliel II, whom Shaul studied under, was Hillel's grandson.<BR/>The truth to Shaul's claim that he was a Pharisee is his extensive use of Hillelian Hermeneutics, for example, the first rule of Hillel (kal v'chomer/light and heavy).<BR/><BR/>It is because of Rabbi Shaul's "earthly" credentials that he was chosen by HaShem to minister Torah to the goyim. That which is of the Torah is not of the earth, it is of Heaven. The righteousness that is of the Torah goes hand in hand with the righteousness that is of the Spirit, since they are not at odds, are not separated from each other, yet are each manifestations of Eloah himself. Shaul's point is that, as he wrote Kabbalistically without the "da'at of Yeshua", the <I>point</I>, not the abolition of the Torah, it would be <I>pointless</I>.<BR/><BR/>In Ephesians 2, Shaul tells us that Yeshua is the one who would make the goyim, who Shaul describes as those "afar", those "alien to the <I>customs</I> of Israel", and those "estranged to the <I>covenant</I> of the promise", as one with "those near", i.e. the Jewish people.<BR/>"And he has reconciled the two of them (Jew and goy; Judah and Ephraim) in one body with Eloah."<BR/><BR/>So what was it that the goyim didn't have? The Torah, the customs, and hope. But when they accept Yeshua, they are made one with the Jewish people, and have become Israelites. They are to be brought to Torah, the customs, and have hope.<BR/><BR/><BR/>As you mentioned, in Acts 15 there were certain Netzarim who wanted to impose all of the Torah and halacha upon gentile converts to Judaism. Instead, it was said that they should learn Torah according to the <B>custom</B> of reading the Torah every Shabbos in the synagogues (synagogues being a Pharisaic/Rabbinic invention).<BR/><BR/>So let's see... follow the Pharisaic customs to learn the Torah over time. That is actually exactly what modern Judaism teaches - they don't impose everything on you at once. And also on another issue like this, modern Judaism agrees with Rabbi Shaul that a convert should not be circumcised until he learns enough Torah to know what he's getting into.<BR/><BR/>Following in Yeshua's footsteps and teachings, one would come out to be what the original Netzarim were, followers of Yeshua who kept the "law, <I>and in the Jewish fashion</I>" (Epiphaneus, Panarion 29). No wonder the Netzarim coexisted with the Pharisees so well for so long, and were often times synonymous with them.<BR/><BR/>Shalom,<BR/>AaronChassidishe Yidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529195696031830910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-27476526828235767142008-05-09T21:44:00.000-05:002008-05-09T21:44:00.000-05:00Judah & Aaron,I'm not going to try to answer every...Judah & Aaron,<BR/><BR/>I'm not going to try to answer every point made, but I will address at least two:<BR/><BR/>The first is the quote from Yochanan 1:24-27,<BR/><BR/>"Some of those who had been sent were P'rushim. They asked him (Yochanan), "If you are neither the Messiah nor Eliyahu nor the 'the prophet,' then why are you immersing people?" To them Yochanan replied, "I am immersing people in water, but among you is standing someone whom you do not know. He is the one coming after me - I'm not good enough even to untie His sandal!"<BR/><BR/>I think it is clear that Yochanan was not saying that the coming Messiah was one of the P'rushim, only that He was among the people there and that they did not know who He was.<BR/><BR/>Also keep in mind that the only people who could recognize Him were able to do so only by the Ruach HaKodesh, and by no other means.<BR/><BR/>Yeshua was not sent here to join with anyone, group or individual. Instead, we are to join ourselves to Him. Which brings me to the quote from Philippians:<BR/><BR/>"For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Messiah Yeshua, and have no confidence in the flesh; <BR/>though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If any other man thinks that he has confidence in the flesh, I yet more: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Yisra'el, of the tribe of Binyamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; concerning the law, a Parush;concerning zeal, persecuting the assembly; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. <BR/>However, what things were gain to me, these have I counted loss for Messiah. Yes most assuredly, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Messiah Yeshua, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and count them nothing but refuse, that I may gain Messiah and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Messiah, the righteousness which is from God by faith;"<BR/><BR/>Do you see anything in there about keeping his earthly credentials intact rather than letting them go in favor of knowing Messiah?<BR/><BR/>I don't. In fact, it would seem logical that Sha'ul was making the point that the two were incompatible, our earthly values and associations compared with heavenly values and associations.<BR/><BR/>As set-apart and righteous as the P'rushim may have been, Sha'ul recognized that it was not enough. And he was willing to put all that behind him for the knowledge of Messiah Yeshua.<BR/><BR/>Keep in mind that prior to the coming of Messiah, people would align themselves with various religious groups, whichever they preferred, and who would accept them. After Messiah, those who put their trust in Him would align themselves only with Him and not with anyone else. This fact is clear in Acts and some of the letters. <BR/><BR/>In chapter 15 of Acts it was the P'rushim who argued with the emissaries about having their rules imposed on the new believers. While none of the emissaries argued against the keeping of Torah, they did not see any advantage to adding the entire weight of Torah to the backs of the new converts all at once. Rather, they would be encouraged to learn about Torah over time.<BR/><BR/>Let's do the math - if Yeshua was a Parush and His talmadim were also constrained by Him to be as well, then those two facts would equal the wholesale conversion of Asia minor to being P'rushim.<BR/><BR/>Didn't happen. Because it wasn't supposed to. The good news of salvation had to be spread throughout the known world. In a relatively short amount of time. Can you see that happening if it got bogged down in Yerushalayim by trying to make everyone a Parush?<BR/><BR/>So what is the advantage of thinking that Yeshua was a Parush? And of a particular school at that? I understand the feelings of those who want to "reclaim" their Jewish Messiah. He certainly has been misrepresented by the Christian community. But it was not done maliciously, just in ignorance. A condition we have all suffered from at some point in our lives.<BR/><BR/>We would do well if we do not confuse finding out who we are in Him with who He is.<BR/><BR/>Shalom,<BR/><BR/>EfrayimEfrayimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17508726718471816381noreply@blogger.com