tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post3292577070717028767..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Did Messiah Practice Judaism?Judah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-66355162811198800732009-09-12T16:11:53.231-05:002009-09-12T16:11:53.231-05:00THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INTERACTIONS
Et MERCI ...THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INTERACTIONS<br /><br />Et MERCI pour votre réponse sur le sujet.<br /><br />C'est incroyable comme vous êtes sympa, <br /><br />Shalom and will not come back<br />Yves Levi, FranceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-11739322859354401772009-08-31T06:26:17.620-05:002009-08-31T06:26:17.620-05:00From: Yves LLevi
YOU WRITE: "...Christianit...From: Yves LLevi<br /><br />YOU WRITE: "...Christianity is not a continuation of Judaism in any way, its a break-off from it...<br /><br />...Christianity is a fork of Judaism: it was originally grounded within Judaism, but soon made a clean break from Judaism..."<br />================================<br />Here we are talking about 2 groups of people. <br /><br />1) Those called out who are clearly rooted in Judaism, and may have inherited the name “Christians” as a way of making fun of them as little “Meshiah”. This is the true “Bride of Meshiah”, composed of His people.<br /><br />2) Those who confuse the truth as a counterfeit into a body that is disguised within a pagan roman cult who plunge it’s roots in Babylon. That is a counterfeit bride of messiah, that relate to the great prostitute – the woman -the bride of the false messiah – that is Babylon religion the root of all idol worship (east & west).<br /><br />I am writing from Europe, and I also know a branch that has resisted the roman cult, who had the Syriac NT not corrupted by Rome. Gypsies friends also told me they were Hebrew who disobeyed God and did not follow Moses out of Egypt. Can someone tell us about the Moranos, the Falashas, and so many others that are a part of God’s people NOT FROM THE ROMAN CULT PERSPECTIVE ????????<br /><br />I am thirsty about TRUTH, not all the garbage christianity from Rome ! Contact: Yves LLevi at yeshua.connections@yahoo.frAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-39938557654765380152009-07-31T16:08:45.152-05:002009-07-31T16:08:45.152-05:00How can you be sure that Yeshua made this one up a...<i>How can you be sure that Yeshua made this one up and Hillel copied this from him</i><br /><br />I said no such thing...did you even read the post?Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-14755730627032760292009-07-31T15:40:50.541-05:002009-07-31T15:40:50.541-05:00@judahgabriel
From where do we know that a Messi...@judahgabriel <br /><br />From where do we know that a Messiah has an has authority to forgive sin?<br /><br />From where do we know that a Messiah is the Master of Shabbat?<br /><br />What is a Messiah?<br /><br />From where do we know that Yeshu is a Messiah?<br /><br />Shabbat Shalom@YesJewishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-52122234934241842012009-07-31T15:28:14.728-05:002009-07-31T15:28:14.728-05:00@judahgabriel says
"Love the Lord your God wi...@judahgabriel says<br />"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."<br /><br />How can you be sure that Yeshu made this one up and Hillel copied this from him maybe this was something that was known long before that? Maybe Hillel never know that Yeshu said this?<br /><br />This can only be used to make you feel better I hope you are.@YesJewishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-49888817489294206352009-07-31T15:19:43.958-05:002009-07-31T15:19:43.958-05:00@judahgabriel
Is it a "Fork"?
It's...@judahgabriel<br /><br />Is it a "Fork"?<br /><br />It's not a fork it's more like including some dll assemblies in your distribution (lib folder) and referencing them without ever actually using them in code.<br /><br />Well maybe you open the assemblies using a tool like Reflector to say this looks like what I need for proof.@YesJewishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-15378619591298262302009-07-31T15:11:43.488-05:002009-07-31T15:11:43.488-05:00@judahgabriel @literaryjoe
"Forgiveness for ...@judahgabriel @literaryjoe<br /><br />"Forgiveness for sin"<br /><br />What was sacrifices for sin brought for? A sacrifice was only brought for unwitting or unintentional sin (shogeg) Leviticus 4:2, 13, 22, 27; 5:5, 15<br />The one exception is if an individual swore falsely to acquit himself of the accusation of having committed theft (Leviticus 5:24-26). Intentional sin can only be atoned for through repentance, unaccompanied by a blood sacrifice- Psalms 32:5, 51:16-19.<br /><br /><br />And do you know that there was 70 years between the destruction of the First Temple and to when the second temple was rebuilt. What did they do then?<br /><br />Also check Jonah 3:5-10.@YesJewishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-57624675000103091452009-07-29T22:01:47.078-05:002009-07-29T22:01:47.078-05:00"I don't think they were Pharisees or Ess..."<i>I don't think they were Pharisees or Essenes.</i>"<br /><br />I'm sure there's a huge multitude if facts about these two groups that you aren't aware of.<br /><br />You can believe what you want, outside of a proper Jewish understanding, but one thing we know for sure is that Paul was a Pharisee. Acts 23:6.A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-53361109284093393822009-07-29T21:01:33.613-05:002009-07-29T21:01:33.613-05:00I don't think they were Pharisees or Essenes. ...I don't think they were Pharisees or Essenes. In his book <i>The Formation of Christianity in Antioch</i>, Marcus Zetterholm suggests that just as many synagogues were identified (Acts 6:9, for example) ours was called the "Synagogue of the <i>Christianos</i>" or Christians.<br /><br />Christianity is not a fork; with the coming of Yeshua and the naming of the Apostles as the halachic authorities the Way became the main code train (to stick with software analogies) that has now in many ways lost its way. To be clear, this is not to say that Christianity replaced Israel; it is to say that Israel and the Church are one and the same thing—the Body of Messiah. <br /><br />But what we know as Judaism has lost its way, they have decided that forgiveness of sin is available via repentance, and Messiah is not needed for salvation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-6786174965996518012009-07-29T21:01:10.497-05:002009-07-29T21:01:10.497-05:00I don't think they were Pharisees or Essenes. ...I don't think they were Pharisees or Essenes. In his book <i>The Formation of Christianity in Antioch</i>, Marcus Zetterholm suggests that just as many synagogues were identified (Acts 6:9, for example) ours was called the "Synagogue of the <i>Christianos</i>" or Christians.<br /><br />Christianity is not a fork; with the coming of Yeshua and the naming of the Apostles as the halachic authorities the Way became the main code train (to stick with software analogies) that has now in many ways lost its way. To be clear, this is not to say that Christianity replaced Israel; it is to say that Israel and the Church are one and the same thing—the Body of Messiah. <br /><br />But what we know as Judaism has lost its way, they have decided that forgiveness of sin is available via repentance, and Messiah is not needed for salvation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-22899058060886863702009-07-29T17:55:38.303-05:002009-07-29T17:55:38.303-05:00...continued
There is a whole wealth of things an......continued<br /><br />There is a whole wealth of things and practices Israelites could be doing today to have full knowledge, but instead there is still much confusion.<br />One great thing that has been preserved is t'fillin and tsitsith. When done with proper intent and prayer, t'fillin can open the mind to the Mind of the Creator, namely the upper triad, Hhakhma (Divine Wisdom), Binah (Divine Understanding), and Da'ath (Divine Knowledge).*<br />The Essenes used a method of exegesis which involved opening one's mind to the Ruahh HaQodhesh and gaining these three above* in the study of the Torah.<br /><br />Today we have Christian mysticism which is kind of a rip-off of these things, and when it is not Torah-founded will eventually result in witchcraft in many cases.<br />There should be no separation to wearing t'fillin and gaining Divine Wisdom, Understand, and Knowledge by means of the Ruahh HaQodhesh, and allowing the Sefira of Netsahh to manifest (which manifests in Ruahh HaQodhesh-controlled tseruf ("combination") in what is commonly called "speaking in tongues").<br />Unfortunately there is a great divide in the minds of people on these issues.<br /><br />There's more I could shpiel about, but I normally don't give a whole lot of information on these issues, especially not in a public forum. Not to mention the Jewish mysticism I have learned and practice is usually rejected and my advice on action is usually regarded as legalistic of cooky. Therefore I don't do these things in public sight either, rather I perform them in private which is the only place is truly matters.<br /><br />I do hope, however, to share all of these JEWels that my Father has given me with my future Jewish esheth-hhayil wife and my future children.A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-12284211657400509082009-07-29T17:55:16.868-05:002009-07-29T17:55:16.868-05:00Judah bro,
You said,
"Christianity is a fork...Judah bro,<br /><br />You said,<br />"<i>Christianity is a fork of Judaism: it was originally grounded within Judaism, but soon made a clean break from Judaism.</i>"<br /><br />I know exactly what you mean, but Christianity is itself the fork of Judaism. Judaism was the original belief of the followers of Yeshua. When Christianity formed, it was a split of Judaism from the start, so technically, it never had roots in Judaism since it never was Judaism.<br /><br />"<i>One then wonders what the original branch was. "The Way" as mentioned in Acts? Was it a Judaism sect? If so, was it Pharisaical? Essene?</i>"<br /><br />The Pharisees and Essenes come from one source, they were called Hhasidim (Chasidim, Hasidim, Hasideans, etc) simply because they were devout in their observance of the Torah. They are mentioned by this name in the books of the Maccabees as well.<br /><br />This would have been the group who carried on the faith of Israel after the tribes of Israel split. Daniel who was a Jewish mystic was probably a prime example of a well-observant Jew, the way the Israelte faith had been in Israel.<br /><br />We know of David (Psalm 55:17), Daniel (Daniel 6:10), the Hhasidim, the Pharisees, and the Essenes that they prayed 3 times daily, according to Oral Tradition, including the Shema' in the morning and evening and 3 Standing ('Amidah) prayers in each 3 times of prayer, modeled after the sacrifices. It involved full-body prostration, kneeling, and bowing towards Jerusalem.<br />Daniel was especially zealous for this custom, of course.<br /><br />While many Psalms have been recited as liturgy, it seems many forms of hithbodeduth (unwritten personal meditationary prayer) made up much praying, and the Essenes have preserved many spiritual teachings and spiritual methods of Torah study, praying, etc, which can be clearly seen as being practiced originally by Daniel and undoubtedly by David as well.<br /><br />So Pharisaism has direct roots in all of this, but of course has developed added customs over thousands of years and naturally has deviated off of many true ancient paths - however it is the only surviving sect of Judaism and that is why it is dominant and influential today.<br /><br />Such related things as 'tseruf' and "speaking in ecstasy" as the Tanakh describes have been ancient Israelite practices by influence of the Ruahh HaQodhesh (Holy Spirit) which were taught and practiced by the Essenes and many Pharisees who were Essene influenced. Many other things, such as knowledge of the stars and constellations from which the Zoroastrians developed their religion (actually based on Daniel's mystical Jewish teachings), have been somewhat lost to us, or lost to common Israelite knowledge.<br /><br />continued...A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-585037681794890522009-07-29T14:37:33.325-05:002009-07-29T14:37:33.325-05:00Christianity is not a continuation of Judaism in a...<i>Christianity is not a continuation of Judaism in any way, its a break-off from it</i><br /><br />In the software world, we call this a "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(software_development)" rel="nofollow">fork</a>". A software project can have different streams, or branches, based on a central trunk. But as soon as someone comes along and says, <i>"I'm going to take this branch and make a brand new software work from it"</i>, that's a fork.<br /><br /><b>Christianity is a fork of Judaism</b>: it was originally grounded within Judaism, but soon made a clean break from Judaism.<br /><br />One then wonders what the original branch was. "The Way" as mentioned in Acts? Was it a Judaism sect? If so, was it Pharisaical? Essene?Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-74955056885668572282009-07-29T14:24:23.445-05:002009-07-29T14:24:23.445-05:00literaryjoe,
Interesting post, there are a few th...literaryjoe,<br /><br />Interesting post, there are a few things I disagree with, so I'll explain.<br /><br />You said:<br /><br />"<i>True, Christianity, properly understood, is a fulfilled Judaism...<br />Christianity is rightfully understood as a continuation of Judaism</i>"<br /><br />Christianity was formed out of rejection of Judaism and the Torah ["Light"/"Teaching" in Hebrew). In the very exact year of Paul the Pharisee's (Acts 23:6) death, as Paul the Pharisee correctly predicted, wolves rose up among the flock.<br /><br />Out of Antioch came a man named Bishop Ignatius who wrote letters to various communities forming a new religion away from "Jewish fables", etc. In one of his letters, which anyone can surely google search and find - he is quoted as saying:<br /><br />"Be not seduced by strange doctrines nor by antiquated fables, which are profitless. For if even unto this day we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace.... If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbaths but fashioning their lives after the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and through His death which some men deny ... how shall we be able to live apart from Him? ... It is monstrous to talk of Jesus Christ and to practise Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity" — Ignatius to the Magnesians 8:1, 9:1-2, 10:3<br /><br />This was later solidified by the Council of Nicea and made standarn Christian doctrine. Clearly, Christianity IS NOT Judaism and NEVER was and CANNOT be meshed with Judaism. In essence, Christianity is an anti-Semitic lie. Christianity is not a continuation of Judaism in any way, its a break-off from it and is not connected to it.A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-57270138531415761022009-07-29T13:24:24.606-05:002009-07-29T13:24:24.606-05:00Yeshua most certainly practiced Judaism. However, ...Yeshua most certainly practiced Judaism. However, it is misleading to extrapolate that to saying that he would be a practitioner of Judaism were he here today.<br /><br />In the 1900 years since Yeshua walked the earth, Judaism has been re-defined, so that now, to quote Dwight Pyror, "Rabbinic Judaism has concluded that we don’t need someone to atone for our sins, but that our sins will be forgiven by our repentance. This is an irreducible difference between rabbinic Judaism and Christianity, between the rabbinic writings and the New Testament."<br /><br />We must recognize this. True, Christianity, properly understood, is a fulfilled Judaism. But what happened historically is that God gave further revelation, the descendants of the Pharisees rejected that revelation, and the descendants of the Apostles (who may have been or had much in common with the Pharisees (likely they were mostly <i>am ha-aretz</i>) accepted it.<br /><br />The easiest way to understand this is to compare the Sadducees with the Pharisees. The Sadducees rejected God's continuing revelation of the Prophets and the Writings, while the Pharisees accepted them. Ironically, the Pharisees then subsequently rejected God's continuing revelation through Yeshua and the Apostles.<br /><br />We must acknowledge that Judaism (as it exists today) misses the quintessential point. We must have Messiah (and His once for all sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins, and for relationship with God, and Yeshua is the Messiah.<br /><br />Christianity must acknowledge that the Body of Messiah is Israel, and that Gentiles are grafted into Israel. That we haven’t replaced biblical Judaism, but filled full the understanding of historical Judaism, and that therefore, the Torah continues to be prescriptive for living.<br /><br />Historically-speaking, Christianity is rightfully understood as a continuation of Judaism. But in common parlance (for the last 1800 years) Judaism refers to a religion that maintained much of the right practices, but rejected the <i>sine qua non</i> of the biblical religion – Messiah, as Savior, as atonement, as Yeshua.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-63101487951411753802009-07-29T03:31:51.761-05:002009-07-29T03:31:51.761-05:00The Pharisees and Essenes were once the same. Whil...The Pharisees and Essenes were once the same. While Yeshua's teachings have lots of Pharisaic content, they also have lots of Essene content. And in fact, it appears as if the Nazarene Jewish movement was perhaps primarily from out of the Essene movement.<br /><br />This blog has the details to this:<br /><a href="http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/nazarene-judaism-true" rel="nofollow">http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/nazarene-judaism-true</a>A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-91355062014428482422009-07-28T20:43:05.872-05:002009-07-28T20:43:05.872-05:00There are many excellent evangelical scholars toda...There are many excellent evangelical scholars today (notably, N.T. Wright) who recognize Yeshua as a practioner of First Century Judaism, and theologically the closest to the Pharisees. Even Jacob Neusner's <i>The Way of Torah</i> concludes that Jesus was a Torah-faithful Jew.<br /><br />The debate, as always, is what kind of Jew Yeshua would be were He and His Disciples among us today. Many Messianics feel He would be Orthodox, others feel He would be a Karaite. I am inclined to believe that Yeshua and His Apostles would be closest to a branch of Judaism that would be most compatible with His message best reaching the most people.<br /><br />With this, I conclude that the Lord would be a part of one of the more moderate branches of Judaism today, such as the Conservative/Masorti movement. A high value for Jewish tradition, but also a high value for humanitarian issues. I don't think Yeshua would have a problem with mainline traditions like lighting Shabbat candles or eating latkes, but I think He would have a problem with us sitting in dark rooms eating cold bread on Shabbat, and not honoring the sacrifice of those who preceded us.J.K. McKeehttp://tnnonline.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65202769822376386842009-07-28T15:14:40.564-05:002009-07-28T15:14:40.564-05:00It matters because it would be consistent with His...It matters because it would be consistent with His claims! <br /><br />John 5:36-But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me.<br /><br /><br />Thanks for sharing Judah!Danny A. Fluker Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15047249792485765465noreply@blogger.com