tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post268861372071245736..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Our survival depends on religious approval?Judah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-61300393995621767522010-02-03T16:44:49.051-06:002010-02-03T16:44:49.051-06:00I read there stuff all the time!I read there stuff all the time!Jesse H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-51270552828896353562010-02-03T16:42:42.836-06:002010-02-03T16:42:42.836-06:00@Derek, I went to Cambridge so follow my blog........@Derek, I went to Cambridge so follow my blog..... Idiot! @Judah LOL "Imaginary Peter" ha love it! and finaly who cares what anti-missionary orthodox Jews read on messi blogs? Good for them!?Jesse H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-34318266654833535462010-02-03T15:36:24.371-06:002010-02-03T15:36:24.371-06:00Hello David,
You're well-spoken, and you offe...Hello David,<br /><br />You're well-spoken, and you offer some wise advice. I know as fact some of the things you've said are true.<br /><br />You recommend I delete this blog post, eh? Talk to me, judahgabriel@gmail.comJudah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-59237348371030708682010-02-03T15:30:33.472-06:002010-02-03T15:30:33.472-06:00It's good to see passion and conviction in the...It's good to see passion and conviction in the younger crowd, even if Judah seems to be "over-reacting" only to shadows of what might be. However, if Judah's statements and tenor seem impolitic to some, they are no more so than Kinzer's. Such a comment as he made should not have been put in print and then amplified so much on the web by others. <br /><br />It is politically advantgeous and important for MJ to be recognized. That being said it is incredibly impolitic for a key political objective to be so announced and then the lack of attaining that goal declared ruinous. Some of Singer's people, Chabadniks and others patrol these blogs. Such comments only help to direct opposition. <br /><br />There are those who move within Judaism proper and are Messianic. They don't see any reason to join the congregational movement, but their goals and efforts don't need to be compromised by these negative visions either. <br /><br />I strongly suggest that the owners of these blogs consider removing this particular topic. <br /><br />Shalom,<br /><br />DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-9140273836818666152010-02-03T13:42:03.606-06:002010-02-03T13:42:03.606-06:00Derek,
So now it is about who has more degrees, h...Derek,<br /><br />So now it is about who has more degrees, ha? No wonder you teachiung is bankropt.... And you have the chutzpah to talk credibility?Dan Benzvinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-78131443179232729772010-02-03T11:01:27.656-06:002010-02-03T11:01:27.656-06:00Derek - sorry, don't mean to misrepresent Kinz...Derek - sorry, don't mean to misrepresent Kinzer here - my first point was badly worded.<br /><br />It's not what Kinzer believes here that's the problem, it's how he perceives it relates with the wider Jewish world, and where/how Messianic Judaism fits in - the idea that Messianic Judaism depends on being accepted by Judaism, as if this were the main criteria for sustaining our movement.Yezehttp://roshpinaproject.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-2842988744678748202010-02-03T11:00:09.683-06:002010-02-03T11:00:09.683-06:00Gene, as I have said, this comes from interactions...Gene, as I have said, this comes from interactions with various Messianic Jewish individuals, mostly who are just people with no teaching or leadership positions. It is something that I have experienced (I concede that you may not have), and at present I would doubt that it would take place on any large organizational level.<br /><br />And yes, there are non-Jewish people involved in Messianic things who are eager to make Yeshua only a human Messiah as well. They are a problem as well.J.K. McKeehttp://tnnonline.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-67278859147285632272010-02-03T10:54:55.505-06:002010-02-03T10:54:55.505-06:00"I know from interactions with various Messia..."I know from interactions with various Messianic Jewish individuals over the years--they do feel that any affirmation of Yeshua as Divine Savior has to go."<br /><br />J.K. McKee, can you elaborate? Are you saying that there is trend among born Jews within Messianic Judaism to push for removal of divinity from Yeshua? I certainly have never encountered that, while at the same time I've met many "messianic" Gentiles who are indeed pushing for this, and I've seen many of them commenting on Judah's blog as well.Gene Shlomovichhttp://www.bethavinu.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-24850303270018899452010-02-03T10:54:11.792-06:002010-02-03T10:54:11.792-06:00Why does this need to be an either/or (fidelity to...Why does this need to be an either/or (fidelity to Messiah vs. acceptance within Judaism)?<br /><br />"And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God <em>and having favor with all the people</em>." Acts 2:46-47aAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-32092123118162364112010-02-03T10:31:49.657-06:002010-02-03T10:31:49.657-06:00Adam, don't spam, please. You've posted th...Adam, don't spam, please. You've posted that exact text on other blogs. It's off topic here.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-11455766352324666312010-02-03T10:31:16.017-06:002010-02-03T10:31:16.017-06:00I appreciate the concerns that Judah has written a...I appreciate the concerns that Judah has written about, because there is a possible issue that in so wanting to be accepted by Messianic Judaism, some Messianic Jews may decide to compromise on serious Biblical doctrines. I personally think it is too close to tell anything right now regarding any organization, but I know from interactions with various Messianic Jewish individuals over the years--they do feel that any affirmation of Yeshua as Divine Savior has to go.<br /><br />As always, the challenge when you disagree with someone, or have strong concerns, is to see where you yourself can improve. I have not hidden my disapproval of the "bilateral ecclesiology" that I feel is growing in Messianic Judaism, yet I also have significant disagreements with people in the Two-House and One Law sub-movements as well. My solution? <b>Focus on what God has given me to do.</b> How can I improve in His service? Do I have to be a little more self-critical, before I talk about what I think is wrong with others?<br /><br />I think that Messianic Judaism, regardless of what happens here or there, is definitely going to accomplish some positive things for the Lord (even if it takes a very long time). But whether it, or any of us as Messiah followers, accomplishes <b>all</b> of the things He wants us to achieve, is probably too big a question to be answered in a blog. How big, or small, do we consider the mission of God to be?J.K. McKeehttp://tnnonline.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-69102224716802451382010-02-03T09:28:23.704-06:002010-02-03T09:28:23.704-06:00James,
Amein, well said!James,<br /><br />Amein, well said!Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-39858668055445930892010-02-03T09:27:36.253-06:002010-02-03T09:27:36.253-06:00Aaron,
I've long thought Yeshua faith as a Ju...Aaron,<br /><br />I've long thought Yeshua faith as a Judaism. It certainly was for Messiah's disciples.<br /><br />The part about "being accepted by the Jewish world, or perish" is what bothers me. It's a noble goal, but it's unattainable. Unachievable. <br /><br />The only way we get accepted by the Jewish world is if we deny Yeshua, or compromise on who he is: the glorified Son of God, emanation of HaShem, sitting at the right hand of God, who has been given "all power and glory and honor" in heaven and earth.<br /><br />As long as Yeshua is Lord, the Jewish world will look on us with contempt.<br /><br />That's my take.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-88453060941253778672010-02-03T09:26:00.371-06:002010-02-03T09:26:00.371-06:00I haven't read all of the comments (there are ...I haven't read all of the comments (there are tons), but I am reminded of <b>Galatians 1:10:</b> <i>"Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ".</i><br /><br />Where to we get our "legitimacy" as believers...from some particular religious group, or from God? If we seek to please God and approach His Word honestly and with an open heart, while we may not be accepted as a "Judaism", we will be accepted by God and Messiah.Jameshttp://shema-yisrael.org/blogspot/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-74360629040125013192010-02-03T09:18:58.247-06:002010-02-03T09:18:58.247-06:00Hi Derek,
I had actually posted this as a comment...Hi Derek,<br /><br />I had actually posted this as a comment to your blog. But it got so long, I thought it deserved its own post.<br /><br />I read your response. I'll do my response as a separate blog post.<br /><br />Take care, enjoy your stay in LA.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-70767926852195556472010-02-03T07:50:30.159-06:002010-02-03T07:50:30.159-06:00I think sometimes it is an inferiority complex, a ...I think sometimes it is an inferiority complex, a desire to fit in, but other times people just want to be legitimate Judaism--the faith of Israel; and that's a good thing!<br />For those people who are in it for that, they're in it for the truth, may they make it all the way. But don't get me wrong, there are others who don't want to consider faith in Rabi Yehoshua` Judaism (which is absurd, btw, who could fathom that following any Rabbi would not entail following Judaism?), but they are still just as much searching for the ultimate truth. May they also make it all the way in HaShem's timing. They're just a little misguided at the moment.A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-66444839830913695392010-02-03T02:15:14.857-06:002010-02-03T02:15:14.857-06:00Judah:
I think your objection is intelligent and ...Judah:<br /><br />I think your objection is intelligent and deserves a response, so I will blog about it tomorrow. But you took a rather quick-to-condemn without asking questions stance. I could have answered you if you had asked. It's alright. I love you anyway, even if you rush to judgment sometimes.<br /><br />Yeze:<br /><br />Measuring against Judaism and not Messiah? Did you read my article? Read it again. Kinzer affirms everything Nicaea affirms. How is Kinzer compromising on Yeshua? If you make a charge against us, it should be based on reality.<br /><br />Ben Zvi:<br /><br />Your credibility has for a long time been at the zero mark. MJTI is dying? Dude, we had a large conference of the best scholars in Messianic Judaism, people who actually get Masters and PhD degrees from places like Cambridge, Hebrew University, and so on. What does your cadre have in terms of academic credibility?<br /><br />Everyone:<br /><br />JudaH is a great guy, but he has some buttons that when pushed set him off. The idea of MJ insecurity and need for approval sets him off. I understand why. But I wish he had read me more charitably. See my blog tomorrow for more.<br /><br />Derek Lemanderek4messiah.wordpress.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02116000293798063018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-39019348568260227462010-02-02T22:35:19.499-06:002010-02-02T22:35:19.499-06:00My 'survival' (read 'salvation') d...My 'survival' (read 'salvation') depends entirely upon the Master Himself (more re. Him later).<br /><br />I am neither a Jew nor Christian (although I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic).<br /><br />After much (focused) study and deep contemplation as it concerns the 'documentation' pertaining to Jesus Barabbas and the 'messiah', I have an alternative view...<br /><br />Beginning with the establishing of the 'Jewish' nation... much to the prophet Samuel's dismay, Saul, -of the tribe of Benjamin, was the first 'anointed' king of the Jews.<br />King Saul was rebuked as 'king' by the (unseen) Lord (for failing to anathematize Agag), -nevertheless, retained leadership of the military and the continuous war against the Philistines. King Saul was replaced by David, of the tribe of Judah. Saul eventually "fell upon his own sword" (ostensibly, to avoid being captured by the Philistines.) King David was succeeded by the 'anointment' of his son Solomon. King Solomon was succeeded by his son Rehoboam... ten tribes revolted away from Rehoboam (and, the heretofore 'theocratic' governance of David and Solomon. Rehoboam was not 'anointed'. Jeroboam established a parallel 'secular' government... thus marginalizing Rehoboam authority. This schism among the 'Jews' continued down through the centuries... into the days of the Roman installed and supported Herod (an Edomite or Idumean) the Great.<br /><br />Enter 'the descendant of David and Jewish 'messiah'... riding into Jerusalem on an ass, -come to restore the ancient 'theocracy' of his fore-fathers. (I have very strong doubts that his name was "Jesus" (or, "Yeshua"), -rather, Judas the Galilean (even though he died during the insurrection years earlier... but the 'insurrection' over the struggle of 'theocracy' v. 'secularism' until the wealthy and educated Jews scattered themselves abroad, the temple at Jerusalem was razed to the ground (save 'the western or 'Wailing Wall') and the nation ceased to exists... in 70 c. e.<br /><br />In that the 'Jews' do not regard or accept that one man is more 'divine' than any other, -likewise, the (actual) 'Son of God' does not involve Himself with politics or governments. His 'work', so to speak, is strictly spiritual... private and personal among His 'disciples'.<br /><br />"Jesus Barabbas", originally written in the Greek Gospel according or attributed to Matthew (27:17), -but that His name was removed or omitted from the Latin translation of the same text and most of the subsequent translations thereafter... leaving us (later peoples) with only "Barabbas" instead. Barabbas is not a proper or surname, -rather, it is an Aramaic appellation, the meaning of which is: Bar = Son + Abba = Father (as in 'the Father of us all' or, 'God', if you will).<br />He was 'chosen' over the demand that the 'Jewish messiah' be crucified (for no other reason than that he (Judas the Galilean) was indeed 'the (hoped-for) messiah'... most 'Jews' did (and still don't) want a government run by priests.<br /><br />Meanwhile, despite that "Jesus Barabbas" (the 'Son of God')is portrayed (in the Gospels) as "a notorious robber, murderer and insurrectionist" (without evidence, much less proof), we know next to nothing whatsoever about Him. <br /><br />"Jesus Christ" is a literary confluence of "Jesus [Barabbas] and "Judas the Galilean" (the descendant and Jewish messiah).<br /><br />... my two copper-plated two cents... that cost more to mint than they are worth.<br /><br />Roland, -a reluctant iconoclast.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03328716049630426904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-86346195123958502592010-02-02T17:32:04.740-06:002010-02-02T17:32:04.740-06:00Incidentally, as a Gentile believer, please do not...Incidentally, as a Gentile believer, please do not shy away from raising such questions about either side of the family. There's a lot of healing that needs to take place, and it will not happen as long as we sweep things under to rug.<br /><br />I know that the unwillingness to have a frank and open dialog about past hurts and current / future remedies is a big part of the Black community's division with the rest of America. Let us not repeat America's errors within either Christianity or Judaim. Get it out in the open, where we can acknowledge our failings and work to bridge the divide.<br /><br />I'm not sure whether this is posting. Your captcha seems to be broken.<br /><br />-- W^L+ (lnxwalt on WordPress, Twitter, Jaiku, Identica, Plurk, Xanga, Vox, Typepad, ...)W^L+http://lnxwalt.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-1705784377112658422010-02-02T17:31:02.232-06:002010-02-02T17:31:02.232-06:00Incidentally, as a Gentile believer, please do not...Incidentally, as a Gentile believer, please do not shy away from raising such questions about either side of the family. There's a lot of healing that needs to take place, and it will not happen as long as we sweep things under to rug.<br /><br />I know that the unwillingness to have a frank and open dialog about past hurts and current / future remedies is a big part of the Black community's division with the rest of America. Let us not repeat America's errors within either Christianity or Judaim. Get it out in the open, where we can acknowledge our failings and work to bridge the divide.<br /><br />-- W^L+ (lnxwalt on WordPress, Twitter, Jaiku, Identica, Plurk, Xanga, Vox, Typepad, ...)W^L+http://lnxwalt.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-12866650792234835932010-02-02T17:30:29.202-06:002010-02-02T17:30:29.202-06:00Incidentally, as a Gentile believer, please do not...Incidentally, as a Gentile believer, please do not shy away from raising such questions about either side of the family. There's a lot of healing that needs to take place, and it will not happen as long as we sweep things under to rug.<br /><br />I know that the unwillingness to have a frank and open dialog about past hurts and current / future remedies is a big part of the Black community's division with the rest of America. Let us not repeat America's errors within either Christianity or Judaim. Get it out in the open, where we can acknowledge our failings and work to bridge the divide.<br /><br />-- W^L+ (lnxwalt on WordPress, Twitter, Jaiku, Identica, Plurk, Xanga, Vox, Typepad, ...)W^L+http://lnxwalt.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-83047266943334838932010-02-02T16:35:36.303-06:002010-02-02T16:35:36.303-06:00Dan,
To answer your question, "is the LDS fr...Dan,<br /><br />To answer your question, "is the LDS from God?", my answer is no, it's not, for what I hope are obvious reasons.<br /><br />Absolutely I can help you get setup with a blog. Email me at judahgabriel@gmail.com and I can help you out. Alternately, if you're on Facebook, we can chat there, I'm <a href="http://facebook.com/judahgabriel" rel="nofollow">facebook.com/judahgabriel</a>.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-14893212252971836422010-02-02T16:19:49.115-06:002010-02-02T16:19:49.115-06:00Judah,
You did not answer my question. I did not ...Judah,<br /><br />You did not answer my question. I did not ask you to equate various groups.<br /><br />As far as a blog, I have a lot to write, it is just that I am a complete computer illitarate. I need some teaching, are you available?Dan Benzvinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-59695571972308251002010-02-02T16:12:02.769-06:002010-02-02T16:12:02.769-06:00"You and Gene think alike."
Don't i..."You and Gene think alike."<br /><br />Don't insult me like that, Judah, I thought you'd play nice this year:)Gene Shlomovichhttp://www.bethavinu.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-32371998537919119522010-02-02T16:07:06.506-06:002010-02-02T16:07:06.506-06:00By the way, Dan, I'm still waiting for you to ...By the way, Dan, I'm still waiting for you to start that blog.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.com