tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post2144974657858458858..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Todd Bentley and the Lakeland RevivalJudah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-74015828048345686332008-08-25T01:51:00.000-05:002008-08-25T01:51:00.000-05:001Th 5:8 But since we are of the day, let us be ...1Th 5:8<BR/> But since we are of the day, let us be sober,<BR/><BR/>1Th 5:6<BR/> so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. <BR/><BR/>1Co 15:34<BR/> Become sober-minded as you ought<BR/><BR/>2Ti 4:5<BR/> But you, be sober in all things,<BR/><BR/>1Pe 1:13<BR/> Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit<BR/><BR/>1Pe 4:7<BR/> The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. <BR/><BR/>1Pe 5:8<BR/> Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.GraceHeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16511471036658708352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-42318388482642668882008-08-24T23:36:00.000-05:002008-08-24T23:36:00.000-05:00Gracehead,My comments were based strictly on the v...Gracehead,<BR/><BR/>My comments were based strictly on the videos themselves. Since I find neither inappropriate or heinous in error. Taking one video and a misstating the word “the” and then throwing out everything else the man has ever said, I find more disturbing than a misstatement. <BR/><BR/>I find WAY too many judging others and saying that so and so is of the devil. The same statement was made of Yeshua by the religious leaders. Hey once I have 1 million salvations under my belt, maybe I’ll think otherwise. But until then I choose not to judge.<BR/><BR/>Personally I choose, as I have said before, to “chew on the meat and spit out the bones”. Many of Todd’s teachings are sound, but I agree not Torah based, as I have said most of Christianity is not Torah based. But I don’t deny their relationship to God on that one point.<BR/><BR/>As for ecstasies, we can find history of these manifestations in both scripture and in the writings of the saints (see St.John of the cross or St.Theresa of Avila).<BR/><BR/>Just because we don’t understand a move of God, doesn’t mean it’s not Him. Also to fear a manifestation is to give more power to the enemy of our souls than to God. Remember God is much better at guiding us than the enemy is at deceiving us. Anything else is based in fear not love.<BR/><BR/>Where I agree with you is on sensationalism. If you read St.Theresa you’ll find she says the same thing, that spiritual “favors” are to win the heart, but are no more important than the peace and love of God manifest in our lives. I also agree that in some circles far too much emphasis is on manifestations and not the indwelling Spirit of God. However, to deny them as not being “of God” is to be on shaky ground and to create our own definition of who God is. Basically we box God in and create an idol.<BR/><BR/>With much love,lsquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11306174759113793994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-34925765962025544242008-08-22T17:24:00.000-05:002008-08-22T17:24:00.000-05:00Isquez, """I’m assuming two things from your post....Isquez, <BR/><BR/>"""I’m assuming two things from your post.<BR/>One that you don’t believe that we can have a visitation from an angel today.<BR/>Two that you have not experienced anything in the supernatural."""<BR/><BR/>Nope.<BR/><BR/>I wonder what made you assume that stuff. Oh well, wild guesses can be fun so ...<BR/><BR/>Todd tells the audience that God told him to quit trying to get people to believe in Jesus and instead get them to believe in "THE" angel. I could not make that stuff up. <BR/><BR/>Why there was anyone left in the audience 60 seconds later simply blows my mind.<BR/><BR/>I won't bother with the miracle resume, I'm disinclined to draw attention to sensational stuff anyway.<BR/><BR/>Ripening, <BR/>Trent<BR/><BR/>PS. <A HREF="http://gracehead.com/index.php/2008/03/11/the_church_needs_more_new_testament_mira" REL="nofollow">The Church Needs More New Testament Miracles</A>GraceHeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16511471036658708352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-45177662234898644742008-08-22T15:48:00.000-05:002008-08-22T15:48:00.000-05:00Judah,I can't either...I had hoped I was clear in ...Judah,<BR/><BR/>I can't either...I had hoped I was clear in making that distinction. I think the temptation is there for each one of us to see God work in some mighty way in our life and sing to ourselves, "How Great I Am" instead of "How Great Thou Art!"<BR/><BR/>In Christ,<BR/>GaryGary Kirkhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12870342469118915243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-42634933057073363172008-08-22T15:19:00.000-05:002008-08-22T15:19:00.000-05:00Gary, I'm cannot say that he is indeed glorifying ...Gary, I'm cannot say that he is indeed glorifying himself; I haven't watched enough of him to be able to discern that.<BR/><BR/>I can say that there has been some abuse of the Spirit, as discussed above.<BR/><BR/>Shabbat shalom.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-82472500412781804062008-08-22T14:50:00.000-05:002008-08-22T14:50:00.000-05:00Judah,This is a general comment, not specifically ...Judah,<BR/><BR/>This is a general comment, not specifically about Bentley, but if the shoe fits he can wear it. God doesn't call people to be "rock stars." Any time it becomes all about you, any time you bring glory to yourself or allow others to give you glory; you are in for a fall. Just recently I heard a news commentator refer to Rick Warren as "the most powerful religious leader in America." It made me cringe. I sincerely hope he doesn't think of himself that way.<BR/><BR/>In Christ,<BR/>GaryGary Kirkhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12870342469118915243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-9069060712683529152008-08-22T13:05:00.000-05:002008-08-22T13:05:00.000-05:00Cool. I just wanted to make sure we were on the sa...Cool. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.<BR/><BR/>Love.lsquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11306174759113793994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-15982505873302332422008-08-22T12:27:00.000-05:002008-08-22T12:27:00.000-05:00Yes, of course. God-acts of healing, raising from ...Yes, of course. God-acts of healing, raising from the dead, angel visitations, these things can and have happened.<BR/><BR/>If we're serious about Scripture being from God, then an honest person must say, "Yes, these things happened and can still happen."Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-60322522581117557762008-08-22T11:51:00.000-05:002008-08-22T11:51:00.000-05:00Agreed. Throw out what is not right and hold fast ...Agreed. Throw out what is not right and hold fast to what is. Again, my main point is don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.<BR/><BR/>I also wholeheartedly agree, that much error today is caused by lack of Torah in both observation and knowledge. Hey, most “Believers” don’t even have a respect for Torah. That whole “under grace not under law” garbage.<BR/><BR/>As for some of the error statements. I can’t give you yeah or neigh as I don’t have first hand experience on the ones you mentioned. But just because there was a hoax and Todd didn’t get it right doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Do you agree?<BR/><BR/>Love ya.lsquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11306174759113793994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-12089369680110358382008-08-22T11:09:00.000-05:002008-08-22T11:09:00.000-05:00Hey Lou,I understand you care for Bentley as you l...Hey Lou,<BR/><BR/>I understand you care for Bentley as you love Messiah and hate to see Bentley's family torn apart.<BR/><BR/>In the post I said,<BR/><BR/><I>I do not take pleasure in seeing Bentley's family torn apart. I do not claim to be on higher moral ground when it comes to sin. I am only happy to see that the error in this claimed revival is being exposed.</I><BR/><BR/>I mean that. I hate to see Bentley's family torn apart because of his sin. I don't mean to be his sin-condemner. I've got my own sins to worry about.<BR/><BR/>Torah commands that we test the prophets to see if their words come true. We have tested and found there to be errors in this prophet; I mean to expose the error that people may repent.<BR/><BR/>Lou, this revival had false claims of resurrections -- we know for certain that some (all?) of the resurrections were not true. For example, we have a documented case where one resurrection letter read by Bentley was a hoax - and the whole time, Bentley and the crowd in Lakeland were saying, "Ohhh! I feel the Spirit!" as they were reading the hoax letter.<BR/><BR/>That was an error.<BR/><BR/>Regarding angels, the error with Bentley's angel visitations is 2 fold: first, that he claims this is the angel who walked the halls of William Branham's faith healing of the 1950's. William Branham was a man who claimed to be Elijah's reincarnation.<BR/><BR/>That was an error.<BR/><BR/>Bentley calls the angel Emma or Emmo-O, and Bentley has a likeness of the Buddhist angel of the underworld, Emma-O, tattooed on himself.<BR/><BR/>That was an error.<BR/><BR/>The raw zeal and thirst for the Lord the people at Lakeland caused them to be caught up with spiritual excitement at the expense of discernment. Charisma was right: <I>We were told, "This is God. Don't question." I blame this lack of discernment, partly, on raw zeal for God. We're spiritually hungry—which can be a good thing. But sometimes, hungry people will eat anything.</I><BR/><BR/>That was an error.<BR/><BR/>Even if you ignore all these things, most importantly is the no-focus on Torah. How can a world-wide move of God happen when there is no foundation in Torah? Such a move is not from God, but from Christianity.<BR/><BR/>Lou, I've been through a number of Christian preachers and Christian movements. When it's over, when the dust has settled, I've always found my mistake in discernment was their ignorance of Torah. Would God start a world-wide revival where the foundation has no concept of Torah? That's like a man with no knowledge of arithmetic trying to major in Lambda Calculus. <BR/><BR/>With no foundation in Torah, of course there is going to be an abuse of the Spirit.<BR/><BR/>You are right about one thing. God can use people with tattoos, people with piercings, people that are different from the average church goer. (Even though tattoos and piercings may arguably be against Torah.)<BR/><BR/>However, I am convinced that without Torah, there will be an abuse of the Spirit. There was an abuse of the Spirit of the Lord in Lakeland; of course there was, for they were ignorant of God's righteous instruction in the Torah.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-16647246933455037632008-08-22T10:26:00.000-05:002008-08-22T10:26:00.000-05:00Gracehead,I’m assuming two things from your post.O...Gracehead,<BR/><BR/>I’m assuming two things from your post.<BR/><BR/>One that you don’t believe that we can have a visitation from an angel today. <BR/><BR/>Two that you have not experienced anything in the supernatural.lsquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11306174759113793994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-83328747033358527222008-08-22T10:15:00.000-05:002008-08-22T10:15:00.000-05:00If you look at the lives of great men in the moves...If you look at the lives of great men in the moves of God, there are those who are rock solid their entire life, others unstable at times, and still others go off on tangents and never recover.<BR/><BR/>If you want an example of a man that “walked with God” in our day read up on Wigglesworth. Even he was used by God in miracles that we would look at, especially in this “politically correct” generation, as unusual or offensive. But the man and his teachings were solid.<BR/><BR/>My point being that until we are in that place where we are being used by God to perform similar miracles, I choose not to judge others, unless there is some blatant heresy. Let me be clear. I do not believe that interaction with angels a heresy. Every great man of God in scripture has at least one encounter with an angel. As for female angles, see Zec 5:9<BR/><BR/>I agree with you 100% about not being Torah focused. Let’s be real, the majority of “Believers” are not Torah focused. That does not mean that God does not use these individuals.<BR/><BR/>God uses everyone and everything whenever He wants to. The believer and unbeliever, the righteous and the wicked, the saved and unsaved. In our modern day I’ve heard of the unsaved prophesying. We can find examples of this in scripture.<BR/><BR/>Again, I don’t think that we are in disagreement about things, I just choose to chew on the meat and spit out the bones. I’m always looking for God not man. I know Todd to be a Godly man. Do we throw out everything just because we don’t agree with a few things? Isn’t this what the “Church” did to its Jewish roots of faith? Threw out everything Jewish because it didn’t understand.<BR/><BR/>We have not been taught to judge, we have only been taught to love. We have only seen the Lamb, not the Lion. Then we will learn how to judge.<BR/><BR/>Todd is an offense to the religious spirits in the “Church”. These spirits say “how can God use a man with tattoos” or “God would not use a person like that”. <BR/><BR/>Remember this statement because you will find it true “God always offends the mind to get at the heart”.lsquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11306174759113793994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-29825009609949614652008-08-22T03:07:00.000-05:002008-08-22T03:07:00.000-05:00Two of the most disturbing things I've ever seen o...Two of the most disturbing things I've ever seen on youtube had to do with Todd.<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya9WKe6afJ8<BR/><BR/>and <BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKA_X1zxOQc<BR/><BR/>Good article brother.<BR/>:-)GraceHeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16511471036658708352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-61721662039173711842008-08-21T16:24:00.000-05:002008-08-21T16:24:00.000-05:00(And Lou, I don't mean to say God cannot reconcile...(And Lou, I don't mean to say God cannot reconcile the situation with Bentley. Not at all. God can reconcile this situation.)Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-36968054207881444402008-08-21T16:22:00.000-05:002008-08-21T16:22:00.000-05:00Lou,My close Christian friends were down there for...Lou,<BR/><BR/>My close Christian friends were down there for 4 weeks. They came back on fire for Jesus.<BR/><BR/>I don't deny that God can move in individuals. I do believe that Todd Bentley was off in some of his teachings.<BR/><BR/>I see no focus on Torah.<BR/><BR/>There was a lot of whipping up of the crowds.<BR/><BR/>Almost all the focus was on supernatural manifestations.<BR/><BR/>There was cursing of anyone who questioned the movement.<BR/><BR/>These things raised red flags to me very early on. We can discuss these in more detail if you like.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-23649009392019427432008-08-21T13:43:00.000-05:002008-08-21T13:43:00.000-05:00I really only have one comment with regards to the...I really only have one comment with regards to the criticism of Todd Bentley. Did God reject David when he fell, or did God restore him once he repented?<BR/><BR/>Hmm. It seams that too many throw out everything once one thing goes wrong. That in itself is neither biblical nor Godly.lsquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11306174759113793994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-29626017662334897422008-08-21T13:18:00.000-05:002008-08-21T13:18:00.000-05:00Judah,I know I am old and out of it because I don'...Judah,<BR/><BR/>I know I am old and out of it because I don't know anything about Tod Bently. I do know that when someone starts pointing to themselves as 'somebody' and says that you should not question what they say because to do so is equivalent to questioning God then it is time to leave the room.<BR/><BR/>People fall for this because they are hungry, even starving, for the touch of God. Churches, on the whole, are either legalistic or licentious, worshiping in hyperstructure tradition and boring, or super entertaining and shallow. In come the charlatans to fill the void.joyindestructiblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04102993777959664280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-91617143702079293132008-08-21T07:22:00.000-05:002008-08-21T07:22:00.000-05:00Judah, be careful not to forget Sha'ul: Brethren,...Judah, be careful not to forget Sha'ul: Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. (Gal 6:1) - JMWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-62201378424830339892008-08-20T16:53:00.000-05:002008-08-20T16:53:00.000-05:00Thanks for stopping by and posting your comment, n...Thanks for stopping by and posting your comment, net2merc.<BR/><BR/>I think God will use this masterfully for good and to bring more glory to him, just as he has used other evil things in history.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65163866642028861192008-08-20T12:41:00.000-05:002008-08-20T12:41:00.000-05:00Thank you for addressing this issue. It has been ...Thank you for addressing this issue. It has been an embarrassment and a concern to me. I agree with your comments and conclusions. The Christian Church has no spiritual discernment and doesn't seem to want it. We are prideful and arrogant because of whoever we think we are. The Church is immature. So sad. We'll keep praying for the Lord to be glorified and for His body to be purified.<BR/><BR/>net2mercAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com