tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post167615766957724449..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Yes, but what have you done?Judah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-82587644295256793132010-11-11T10:07:40.121-06:002010-11-11T10:07:40.121-06:00>> Do I have your permission to print this o...>> <i>Do I have your permission to print this on an inflatable hammer? I'm only partially kidding.</i><br /><br />:grin:<br /><br />FWIW, I think there are real things you can contribute on the internet besides commentary. For example, I've used my skills as a software developer to build the <a href="http://commandments.codeplex.com" rel="nofollow">Greatest Commandments Project</a>, and also <a href="http://bit.ly/chavah" rel="nofollow">Chavah Messianic Radio</a>. I fancy those things as minor contributions to the kingdom, and they're not just commentary. <br /><br />Of course you don't have to be a programmer to contribute. While the Weekly Bracha is part commentary, I look at it as shedding light on some of the more relevant posts on the Messianic blogosphere. So I hope that, in some way, is a contribution. I have another blog that puts Paul's letters in blog form and in modern language. Again, perhaps some commentary there, but I think it contributes to the kingdom in some tangible way. <br /><br />I think these things are more valuable than Judah's commentary/criticism of other blogs/bloggers/ministries. :-)<br /><br />Anyways. Just thinking out loud now.<br /><br />Take care.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-23661350510177609132010-11-10T23:19:13.502-06:002010-11-10T23:19:13.502-06:00Also,
"You often tell me that Christians an...Also, <br /><br />"You often tell me that Christians and Messianics don't understand Messiah's teachings. How can you say that when you reject all the books containing Messiah's teachings?"<br /><br />Do I have your permission to print this on an inflatable hammer? I'm only partially kidding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-81039230106976676972010-11-10T23:15:30.656-06:002010-11-10T23:15:30.656-06:00Judah,
Great post, great points. The need for doi...Judah,<br /><br />Great post, great points. The need for doing things that actually matter cannot be emphasized strongly enough.<br /><br />That being said, this is the Internet. I do things in the real world. I come here to talk, to argue, to make connections, to refine my thinking, to bounce ideas around. I don't come here to do because there really isn't anything to do here (except to remind people to go out and do every once in awhile). If you want to know about what I've done, shoot me a Facebook message. <br /><br />Sometimes, things really aren't as clear as our first impression, and scholarship does play a really important role in letting us know that. Someone could just as easily say that Paul is obvious and you and I are playing acrobatics to make him okay with anyone practicing kashrut in any sense. <br /><br />There is a need for scholarship, dialogue, and doing. And yes, it does help to be reminded that doing is most important, but you don't have to call the close Jewish reading of Scripture "punditry" to remind us of that.<br /><br />The Sages made tzedakah one of the pillars of post-Temple Jewish life, and while I don't think we can dig up charity records from fifth-century Babylon, if their thoughts about it are any indication, they did do a lot more than just "punditry".<br /><br />Study Torah, that's important. Do things, that's more important. I think you may be creating a conflict that doesn't (usually) exist. (Although I did once have the great pleasure of cheering when a friend of mine tore a kollel rabbi a new one for implying that shmirat mitzvot was obligatory and being a mensch was only a nice thing to do.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-15212025796479546112010-11-06T11:31:54.110-05:002010-11-06T11:31:54.110-05:00Hi Judah,
If you are indeed intent are forming a ...Hi Judah,<br /><br />If you are indeed intent are forming a goon army, I would like to remind you that the Torah would limit who was sent out to battle. If someone's heart was not in it, then they were not allowed to go with the army. I would use that same guideline here as well. <br /><br />If you are looking for a way to encourage people to go to battle, there were a few people on this blog that should have been left behind. What could have been an opportunity for encouraging good works instead turned into a typical internet debate that tended to reveal character instead of answers. <br /><br />How about if you do a blog on good works and limit responders to only positive responses lest they not be posted. Yes I would have to be careful too. :)<br /><br />Shalom,<br />JeffMessiah's Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08980847043588208916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-26320647738675100572010-11-05T16:58:33.328-05:002010-11-05T16:58:33.328-05:00Count me in as a goon too!Count me in as a goon too!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08175356521013075961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-4656676108220291162010-11-05T16:21:51.067-05:002010-11-05T16:21:51.067-05:00Jon,
Because of your loyalty, I hereby appoint yo...Jon,<br /><br />Because of your loyalty, I hereby appoint you to the rank of Head Goon General. I dub thee General Jon Goon. <br /><br />Your first order of business is troll patrol while I rest on shabbat. Since you're an ugly gentile with no standing in God's kingdom, I fully expect you to work for me over shabbat.<br /><br />Your Benevolent Dictactor,<br />-JudahJudah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-31709436163127683292010-11-05T15:31:25.853-05:002010-11-05T15:31:25.853-05:00Hi Anon,
I know it angers you that Jewish people ...Hi Anon,<br /><br />I know it angers you that Jewish people can follow Jesus. I've seen your tactics on other Messianic blogs, where you turn everything into a question of whether the person is really Jewish. (In fact, you just did this on the Gathering Sparks blog!)<br /><br />You will not repeat that on this blog. One and only warning. Have fun.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-59877151904269733192010-11-05T14:53:58.906-05:002010-11-05T14:53:58.906-05:00"Many of our traditional texts...."
Oh,..."Many of our traditional texts...."<br /><br />Oh, brother, there you go with the "our" again, my gentile friend. Sr. Himango, why is it so difficult for you to admit that you're a non-Jew preaching non-Judaism? Don't you feel your ideology is strong enough to prevail over Judaism irrespective of your personal ethnicity? Why the indulgence in trickery?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-85303977936181673202010-11-05T13:49:24.948-05:002010-11-05T13:49:24.948-05:00I always thought that being someone's goon mea...I always thought that being someone's goon meant agreeing with everything they say...<br /><br />And we hardly do...but hey, I'll do pretty much anything for a gag. <br /><br />command away, Judah. <br /><br />your loyal goon,Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06299838981543785885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-32847025322637812132010-11-05T10:27:24.454-05:002010-11-05T10:27:24.454-05:00Dear fine Kineti readers:
My brother Aaron has de...Dear fine Kineti readers:<br /><br />My brother Aaron has declared you all my goons. <br /><br />Problems is, I'm not sure what to do with goons. Can I command them? Can I send them out to do my bidding? Do they eat normal food, or just brains?<br /><br />I will ponder what to do with my newfound idolatrous goon army. Suggestions welcome.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-59975926320285829192010-11-05T09:50:47.041-05:002010-11-05T09:50:47.041-05:00Aaron, I saw your original point-by-point post. I&...Aaron, I saw your original point-by-point post. I'll respond.<br /><br />>> <i> You had some sort of problem with sages writing on details of Torah, no?</i><br /><br />No. With your strong "Judaism is never wrong" agenda, you misread my whole post.<br /><br />>> <i>Fulfilling obligations does mean right living</i><br /><br />Ah, now you sneak in the word "fulfilling". Before you accused Christians of living terribly because only Jews have 613 obligations. <br /><br />That's the whole point of my post, dude. If you just talk about God and do nothing, what the hell have you been doing? Having obligations is not right living. An alcoholic, abusive husband has obligations, but that doesn't mean he's living right.<br /><br />Living right is right living. That means <i>doing</i> something. I think you actually agree with me, but you're being contrarian because my following Yeshua angers you.<br /><br />>> <i> No one in the Tanakh prayed to any other than HaShem</i><br /><br />When I pray to Yeshua, I am praying to HaShem. Yeshua is an emanation of God, the Word made flesh. God is not a man, but he can appear in the flesh. A plain reading of the Tenakh -- one that doesn't involve Scriptural acrobatics -- concurs.<br /><br />>> <i>Judah, stop accusing everyone of some stupid "straw man" argument</i><br /><br />I'll keep beating that drum until it's heard. A <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man" rel="nofollow">straw man argument</a> is an argument where one side misrepresents the other's position, then attacks that misrepresentation.<br /><br />That's exactly what's happened here: Judaism-shaming anti-missionaries who routinely obstruct God's kingdom misrepresent our position, claiming we worship a 2nd god. We do no such thing. We worship the God of Israel alone. Yeshua is not a second god anymore than the Word is a second god, anymore than God's spirit is a second god. <br /><br />It pains me that you listen to hate-filled anti-missionaries more than your own family. You'll change in time.<br /><br />>> <i>Your Greek-minded "one with God" theology is Hellenism</i><br /><br />Sorry, it's in the gospels and Revelation and the epistles. If you reject all of them (do you?), how can you tell me anything about Yeshua? You often tell me that Christians and Messianics don't understand Messiah's teachings. How can you say that when you reject all the books containing Messiah's teachings?<br /><br />>> <i>It is comical how you defend idolatry</i><br /><br />It is comical how you defend beating your underage wife with mini dulcimer hammers.<br /><br />(Are we done with radical, false accusations?)<br /><br />>> <i>You have no place to speak. You have never been here, you have only been there. I was there and now I'm here, so I am able to say what trash the Messianic religion usually is. </i><br /><br />Aaron, you're my brother. I've helped you through some tough times in your life. I've seen you have shift after shift in your life. I can remember one point where you made prophecies and had dreams and deeply read into what time it was on the clock each time you looked at it. You made statements like, "If this doesn't come to pass, then I'm done". You drift from place to place, it seems, as if you can't find it. Every year, it's a new theology, a new outlook, a new girlfriend. <br /><br />Several years ago, you got into teachings that Dad warned you about. You thought they upheld Messiah and Torah, but in reality, they led you down the wrong path, and what I'm witnessing right now from you is the ugly fruit of that. I see dad's wisdom in rebuking you over it. I hope you will see it, too, in time.<br /><br />I love you, bro. Truth is, all that you want was there all the time: peace and stability in Messiah.<br /><br />You'll find it again some time, and I'll be the first to welcome you back when it happens.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-87972133270989388342010-11-05T06:00:07.087-05:002010-11-05T06:00:07.087-05:00I responded point by point to your lame response, ...I responded point by point to your lame response, Judah, and I saw that it posted. Now I cannot. I will assume that it is a glitch and I suppose I'll be content with the content I layed out in my mockery of you and your goons and your idolatry.<br /><br />"Know this day, and lay it to your heart, that HaShem, He is God in heaven above and over the earth beneath; there is none else."Jewzillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686287769299608846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-10480350769419783852010-11-05T05:52:36.664-05:002010-11-05T05:52:36.664-05:00Ahh and your cronies to back you up with:
"Go...Ahh and your cronies to back you up with:<br />"<i>Good response! I used to go to church, and now I believe the same idolatrous garbage as Christianity, just that I do it on Saturday when I call on my god jayzeus who is one with God, and I praise his name, which is complete idolatry since you are to worship none other than the Creator. But I reconcile this severe sin with my Hellenistic theology which categorizes and limits God, saying a man is actually part of him. That's pretty ridiculous, considering the Tanakh says God is not a man nor a son of man. But I'll believe this anyway, because I rely on Christian tradition and don't mind the editing and twisting done by the church fathers.<br />And also, I boast saying I am the perfect religion. Smack dab between Christianity and Judaism. I got the best of both worlds, and I am superior to both. Screw the Jews and their man-mad observance of Torah. Heck, I make up my own interpretation of the Torah, like Karaites, and I pride myself in that. I am the biggest, most arrogant and ignorant person you might ever meet. Aaron used to be this way too, but he changed and went against the status quo of his environment because he is evil and apparently hates God and has no spiritual relationship with him, since he is content with worshiping ONLY God serving Him alone. Poor soul...</i>"<br /><br />I don't know whether to grimace or laugh at this sad reality.Jewzillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686287769299608846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65374934225522663882010-11-05T05:44:20.497-05:002010-11-05T05:44:20.497-05:00Judah,
1. You had some sort of problem with sages...Judah,<br /><br />1. You had some sort of problem with sages writing on details of Torah, no? Didn't you something very similar to that? That's all I was trying to point out. And I disagree with that mindset that you have, that's all.<br /><br />2. Fulfilling obligations does mean right living. Don't let Galatians fool you. It doesn't even align with what Yehoshua` said.<br /><br />3. I think you do sincerely think you favor details of Torah, but we disagree majorly in what are those details. Because many aspects of Torah do not exist in yours and normative Messianic "observance".<br /><br />4. No one in the Tanakh prayed to any other than HaShem, and relied on no one but HaShem to forgive their sins. One can always seek HaShem DIRECTLY, but you do, plainly, disagree with this. You are very wrong, and I have no idea how you reconcile this Christian view with the Tanakh.<br />Also, you don't seem to take into account the dubious "cannon" of the Christian church, and their edits to the text of their Bible.<br /><br />5. Judah, stop accusing everyone of some stupid "straw man" argument. The fact is, you worship another besides the Creator, and that is a violation of the first Matter of the 10 Matters, and other statements of the Tanakh that say there is NO OTHER besides HaShem.<br />Your Greek-minded "one with God" theology is Hellenism. Its not in the Tanakh and not in authentic Torah-Judaism. It is not a pure belief, and it has no place in service to the One Creator who has no parts and no body and no form and no corporeality, and no likeness to be perceived by the human mind.<br /><br />6. Very funny, Judah. It is comical how you defend idolatry and try to tell me, who am content with the salvation and worship of the One True God (which is the mode Yehoshua` taught), that I am the one in error.<br />You have no place to speak. You have never been here, you have only been there. I was there and now I'm here, so I am able to say what trash the Messianic religion usually is.Jewzillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686287769299608846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-10832563196111677252010-11-02T07:08:43.003-05:002010-11-02T07:08:43.003-05:00Judah-
great post. AND a great reply.Judah-<br /><br />great post. AND a great reply.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06299838981543785885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-25317288455050687442010-11-01T21:51:41.848-05:002010-11-01T21:51:41.848-05:00P.S. 20 geek points for quoting Jeff Atwood!P.S. 20 geek points for quoting Jeff Atwood!Yahnatanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02321984415847643594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-9817652254246018882010-11-01T21:51:00.506-05:002010-11-01T21:51:00.506-05:00Great post, Judah...a true classic.Great post, Judah...a true classic.Yahnatanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02321984415847643594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-66178485219872616382010-11-01T21:17:40.933-05:002010-11-01T21:17:40.933-05:00Well said Judah.Well said Judah.Dr. Schiffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09056277867894890544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-84406667578405073282010-11-01T15:25:30.837-05:002010-11-01T15:25:30.837-05:00Aaron,
Brevity is a virtue.
>> It is odd t...Aaron,<br /><br />Brevity is a virtue.<br /><br />>> <i>It is odd to me that you dislike the infinity of the Torah.</i><br /><br />It is odd you routinely beat your underage wife with mini dulcimer hammers.<br /><br />(False, accusatory statements suck.)<br /><br />>> <i>I'm sure Torah sages do much more than your average atheist, Christian, Messianic, or Muslim, since with the 613 base-commands of Torah and their explanations amount to myriads upon myriads of obligations</i><br /><br />Obligations ≠ right living.<br /><br /><i> >> Your outlook on this matter is definitely an outlook that does not view the details of Torah favorable.</i><br /><br />No, I do view it favorably. Don't tell me what I believe.<br /><br /><i> >> Because [Messianics] don't actually follow Yehoshua` (since they do not know what it actually means and have been deceieved),</i><br /><br />We are disciples of Yeshua. It is you who pick and choose which of Messiah's words to believe, amplifying statements like "keep the Torah to have eternal life", but minimizing statements like "No one comes to God except through Me" and "He who rejects me rejects my Father in heaven".<br /><br /><i> >> worshiping another besides the Creator</i><br /><br />All creation will praise the Lamb, who is part of the creator. It says this explicitly in Revelation. There is no second god. This "second god" idea is a straw man argument invented by anti-missionaries who routinely obstruct God's kingdom.<br /><br />>> <i>I really wish people would stop being ignorant and arrogant in their false religion and get out.</i><br /><br />You will in time.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-36838581811696307962010-11-01T13:41:06.468-05:002010-11-01T13:41:06.468-05:00If someone believes Yehoshua` was a righteous Jew,...If someone believes Yehoshua` was a righteous Jew, then they would have to believe what I said. Because that is what the Torah says about such issues. But unfortunately, fools will say that their own personal interpretation which rejects vasts amounts of Torah wisdom is the standard by which Yehoshua` lived. What garbage, and what arrogance, ignorance, and foolishness.Jewzillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686287769299608846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-47198994026313170182010-11-01T13:37:50.550-05:002010-11-01T13:37:50.550-05:00Yes, I am saying everyone who hates the Oral Torah...Yes, I am saying everyone who hates the Oral Torah out of ignorance of their Christian-programmed mind, and who worship, pray to, or believe in a second to the Creator have no place in the world to come unless they repent.<br /><br />This is what Christianity and Messianism breed. Death of the soul. People who don't repent and get out of such false religions, and don't actually do what Yehoshua` did, which was adhere to all of his obligations as a Jew, will surely die at their death. No eternal life. In fact, Yehoshua` teaches exactly this. Messianics, and much less Christians, do not actually do what he said. If they did, they would be doing well. Because they wouldn't worship another besides the Creator and would believe both in the Written and Oral Torahs.<br /><br />I really wish people would stop being ignorant and arrogant in their false religion and get out.Jewzillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686287769299608846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-27807687712219997922010-11-01T13:26:15.518-05:002010-11-01T13:26:15.518-05:00It is odd to me that you dislike the infinity of t...It is odd to me that you dislike the infinity of the Torah. It must be handled step by step, but what is proper is to delve into the Torah in immense detail. I suppose Messianics generally disagree with this, though.<br /><br />The Torah is infinite and therefore there can theoretically be an infinite number of commentaries and midrashim on the Torah.<br /><br />And I'm sure Torah sages do much more than your average atheist, Christian, Messianic, or Muslim, since with the 613 base-commands of Torah and their explanations amount to myriads upon myriads of obligations. You see, the Torah is supposed to be the very life of a Jew. But Messianics (and needles to say the other adherents to false religions as mentioned above) I guess do not agree with this probably because they're living a form of Christianity.<br /><br />Your outlook on this matter is definitely an outlook that does not view the details of Torah favorable.<br /><br />No shahhitta ("shechita"), no understanding of melakhoth, no fulfilling the positive command of tafillin, no recital of brakhoth at the appropriate time, etc, the list goes on.<br />Someone cannot truly be adhering to Torah when they do not adhere to these very important details of Torah.<br /><br />But people who have not yet become Israel are not actually obligated to most of these. And I do not expect a mixture religion like Messianism to adhere to these. In time, some probably will.<br /><br />So the disagreement is more about what people should aspire to, rather than the status of their process.<br /><br />I'm guessing that someone might counter with "but Jesus said the weightier matters of Torah are mercy, love, etc, etc, etc". But if Yehoshua` was not a heretic and actually did believe and do the Torah, then he would consider a Jew who intentionally breaks Shaboth (by lighting a fire or buying something, etc) to get "karet", cutting off of the soul. No life in the world to come, unless you repent. Messianism doesn't teach anything like that:<br />1. Because they don't actually follow Yehoshua` (since they do not know what it actually means and have been deceieved),<br />2. Few Messianics probably actually know about those commands of Torah,<br />3. A minority of Messianics are actually Jewish and thereby obligated to these commands.<br /><br />I wish people understood these things. Because without understanding such things, people are ignorant and lacking in their obligations. People with Israelite souls who should convert and become part of `am Yisrael are diverted from doing so by crap teachings of Christian/Messianic supremecy, AKA replacement theolody.<br /><br />I did not even touch on the penalty for believing in a second to the Creator, praying to another besides the Creator, and worshiping another besides the Creator. All of which are blatantly and plainly condemned and warned against, without any allegory, in the text of the Tanakh. Thus, a big irony occurs when the pre-requisite for eternal life is belief in a man-god creation of the mind, when in actuality, this will condemn a person's soul to death.Jewzillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686287769299608846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-15501011097583600632010-11-01T07:42:23.763-05:002010-11-01T07:42:23.763-05:00Sorry to belabor this, but I thought the following...Sorry to belabor this, but I thought the following quote I found on twitter this morning was appropriate:<br /><br /><i>Giving creates a vessel for receiving, the more you give the more you receive. Be compassionate to others, God will be compassionate to you.</i> -<b>Rabbi Ginsburgh</b>Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-14494750307924000522010-10-31T10:05:13.721-05:002010-10-31T10:05:13.721-05:00Sometimes a person's circumstances don't a...<i>Sometimes a person's circumstances don't allow the 'doing' of Christianity... I'm thinking of the poorest of the poor, as an example... But when you think about it, our lives can be like 'walking Bibles' to those who would never open a Bible nor have one of their own. We are to be Christ-like in everything, which will bring people's attention to our 'different' character... Let them open 'our Book', which is the Book of the Lord... and be sure to give credit to the Lord as soon as possible. It is then that they can start reading the Words our Messiah gave to us. Rmom</i><br /><br />Well said. Behavior is the great equalizer among people of faith. While folks without financial resources may not be able to help out in the same way as those who are relatively secure (though you could consider <strong>Luke 21:1-4</strong>), everyone has something to give others, even if it's "just" a smile, a kind word of encouragement, or help moving a sofa.<br /><br />This is where "the rubber meets the road", to quote an old commercial. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, educated or uneducated, Jewish or Gentile, Messianic, Christian, Rabbinic Jews, or operate under some other "label". It's what you do that counts and where your heart is, not what you write on a blog.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-38272226101019628412010-10-31T08:40:20.026-05:002010-10-31T08:40:20.026-05:00Sometimes a person's circumstances don't a...Sometimes a person's circumstances don't allow the 'doing' of Christianity... I'm thinking of the poorest of the poor, as an example... But when you think about it, our lives can be like 'walking Bibles' to those who would never open a Bible nor have one of their own. We are to be Christ-like in everything, which will bring people's attention to our 'different' character... Let them open 'our Book', which is the Book of the Lord... and be sure to give credit to the Lord as soon as possible. It is then that they can start reading the Words our Messiah gave to us. RmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com