tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post1666675461783940026..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Is it a sin for Christians to break the Torah?Judah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-86690593657513151622011-05-07T01:23:01.172-05:002011-05-07T01:23:01.172-05:00Well stated, C.F.
YakWell stated, C.F.<br /><br />YakAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-13171408702127387292011-05-06T20:40:17.135-05:002011-05-06T20:40:17.135-05:00Believers in Yeshua are they who live according to...Believers in Yeshua are they who live according to Torah and the writings of the Believers. Yeshua the Messiah made a way for each one to receive the anointing of the Ruach HaKodesh (Set-Apart Spirit) and learn His Word according to the Tanach, (Torah -instructions in righteousness; Neviim -prophets; Ketuvim -writings) and writings of the believers. We observe Torah as did Yeshua and His disciples. Believers come from all manner of Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Eastern etc religious backgrounds to live according to the faith of Yeshua. We follow an ancient and future calendar based on Torah. Torah (instruction in righteousness) is the authoritative Word of YHWH. For believers the Good News or Gospel is the entire Bible. We regard Yeshua as Lawgiver and Teacher of all Righteousness.<br /> We know Yeshua as the Arm of YHWH revealed, YHWH Tsidkenu, (Yahweh our Righteousness). Believing leaders are diligent followers, and are qualified according to Yeshua's standards, not theological credentials or popularity contests. Leadership and authority is established by YHWH through a Beit Din (house of counsel/judges) comprised of three or more spiritually mature men in Yeshua who are equally vested in the believing community. The believing in Yeshua fellowship does not follow the hierarchical model of head rabbi or pastor, each soul in the congregation is considered as equal, not on "levels" but each one walks according to their gifts and anointing of the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy or Set-Apart Spirit). Yeshua instructed all men to not let themselves be called "leaders", Matthew 23:10, clearly there are multitudes of religious "leaders" who are in willful violation.<br />Believers take care of our bodies as the "Temple of the Living Elohim" and do not make a habit of eating foods of Babylon. Believers are not dismayed or confounded with the world’s commercial system, or entertainment, or diversions into paganism. As Torah is written upon the hearts each one can differentiate between what right and wrong and become transformed, old things have passed away behold all things are become new. We study the Scriptures which directs us according to the Ancient Path and prophetic revelation for the days ahead. We trust in what Messiah Yeshua has done for us, His sacrifice makes atonement for transgression confessed before Him with a humble and contrite heart.<br /> Believers do not emphasize theology or doctrine as the standard of "Faith", but righteous character and the action of true Faith. Torah observance by faith is action demonstrating the anointing of the Ruach HaKodesh (Set Apart Spirit). If one says they have faith, but has no love for Torah, their faith is vanity. The believers, the "Netzarim" originates in Isaiah 11, the "netzer" or "sprout" which refers to the Kingdom of Elohim in Messiah.<br /><br />C.F.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-22016498708969822482011-05-05T01:32:53.911-05:002011-05-05T01:32:53.911-05:00Said more on this on my blog here
@Jesse: thanks
...Said more on this on my blog <a href="http://faithbasedworks.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/is-it-a-mitswa-for-christians-to-fulfill-the-torah/" rel="nofollow">here</a><br /><br />@Jesse: thanks<br /><br />shalom, JosAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-89411825420765639482011-05-04T22:01:13.881-05:002011-05-04T22:01:13.881-05:00@faithbasedworks. The Messiah's return and man...@faithbasedworks. The Messiah's return and many end time things are prophesied in the Torah, Including the destruction of the earth! This has not been fulfilled yet! The Torah is not 100% fulfilled. Yeshua (Jesus) said ...<br /> "Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah — not until everything that must happen has happened."<br /><br />The Torah HAS NOT BEEN FULFILLED YET!!!<br /><br />Shalom - JesseTabernacle of Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749576853042463387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-20174525089940225432011-05-04T15:04:34.182-05:002011-05-04T15:04:34.182-05:00In my viewpoint you (gentile and Jew) don't ha...In my viewpoint you (gentile and Jew) don't have the ability the fulfill all the mitswot. That doesn't mean that you don't have to do any mitswa.<br /><br />It rather points to the Messiah Jesus who was already, and fulfilled and established and finished the Torah perfectly. In that perspective the Torah is made complete and perfect. It can not be broken again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65779104084575014922011-05-04T14:44:23.583-05:002011-05-04T14:44:23.583-05:00I would put it in another way: is it a mitswa for ...<i>I would put it in another way: is it a mitswa for Christians to fulfill the Torah?</i><br /><br />That's certainly one way to bring the conversation back to the original topic. The answer depends on whether Gentile Christians have the ability to actually fulfill all of the Torah commandments (mitzvot). How you consider the answer depends on your viewpoint. Does that mean we're back to square one?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-55846072996387521782011-05-04T14:36:56.027-05:002011-05-04T14:36:56.027-05:00Wow, what a comments!
I would put it in another wa...Wow, what a comments!<br />I would put it in another way: is it a mitswa for Christians to fulfill the Torah?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-22279211844505098162011-05-04T01:56:19.824-05:002011-05-04T01:56:19.824-05:00IMHO:
What's with all the cheerleading and pr...IMHO:<br /><br />What's with all the cheerleading and praise (in these comments) for the popish mainline Christianity with all of it's vain traditions of men that are exponentially worse than for what the Pharisees were chastised for doing? At least the Pharisees kept the Sabbath (albeit a bit too stringently) which is a major sign between the living Elohim of Israel and His people.<br /><br />What seal [ref Ezekiel 9:4; Revelation 7:3; 9:4] or mark [ref Revelation 13-16, 19-20] do Anon's Baptists (or any Sunday-Christmas-Easter pig gourmand) have?!<br /><br />Synergism didn't work for the Israelites when they made a gold calf, didn't work for the northern tribes or the Samaritans, and it won't work today. Will it?!<br /><br />The bottom line is that there is NO gentile covenant for Salvation. The ONLY Salvation Covenant is with true and faithful Israel, natural-born or grafted-in. i.e. There is no way to eternal Life in the Kingdom of YHWH without repentance to the Way of YHWH and of His Messiah [ref Luke 13:3, 5]. If one is not in-Covenant, what hope does one have? (I ask rhetorically, because I do not find any examples of Covenant rejectors being touted as destined for the Kingdom as promised for the Patriarchs, Prophets, Saints, and Apostles.) And mainliners do not even know, cannot teach, what the Salvation Covenant is - and it is not ~just believe~ nor is it the feel-good "assurance" verses (e.g. John 3:16; Romans 10:13; cf James 2:19; Matthew 7:21].<br /><br />Try, 1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.<br /><br />Anon, come on back and learn the Truth [ref Deuteronomy 8:3; Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4] by testing all things and cleaving to what is good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-19517704774246264232011-05-03T16:09:54.225-05:002011-05-03T16:09:54.225-05:00Dear "Brother in Christ".
It's prob...Dear "Brother in Christ".<br /><br />It's probably fair to let you know that a group of us is discussing how to best respond to your comments <a href="http://judahgabriel.blogspot.com/2011/05/messianics-are-mean-therefore-im.html" rel="nofollow">in a subsequent blog post</a>.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-77955583664173290002011-05-03T12:54:12.076-05:002011-05-03T12:54:12.076-05:00Judah,
I like your blog and all, and have learned...Judah, <br />I like your blog and all, and have learned a few good things however from time to time it just digresses into pure nastiness. I go to a very stable Baptist church where the fruits of the spirit are evident we have a deep love for Israel, the Jewish people and each other. What do you have to offer that would better my life as a disciple of Christ? Seriously all I see is fighting and division Paul warns harshly to expel those who cause division.. <br /><br />Also why are some people on this forum so vile? I noticed in the disagreement between Gene and Dan Dan calling Gene a Shmuck? (a word I found out means penis in Yiddish) is this what your idea of serving Christ looks like? Out of the mouth the heart speaks. <br />I think for now I will just stick with my church it's stable, dynamic and we are all trying to serve Christ the best we know how. I feel much safer there. <br /><br />Brother in Christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-48676127304220082492011-05-02T17:55:30.202-05:002011-05-02T17:55:30.202-05:00Heb 10:27 but only the terrifying prospect of Jud...Heb 10:27 but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, of raging fire that will consume the enemies. <br />Heb 10:28 Someone who disregards the Torah of Moshe is put to death without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses. <br /><br />Judah, YHWH is gathering Israel or the "Melo Hagoyim" (Gen 48:19, Amos 9:9, Acts 15:16) from all the nations, those who truly follow him are awakening to His Word the Torah! Those who are not listening are not his followers or even "born again" His sheep listen to his voice John 10:27 Rev 18:4<br /><br />Thanks - JesseTabernacle of Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749576853042463387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-38397337902518893842011-05-02T17:49:12.143-05:002011-05-02T17:49:12.143-05:00Jas 1:25 But if a person looks closely into the p...Jas 1:25 But if a person looks closely into the perfect Torah, which gives freedom, and continues, becoming not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work it requires, then he will be blessed in what he does.Tabernacle of Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749576853042463387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-64945248468578707622011-05-02T17:47:45.581-05:002011-05-02T17:47:45.581-05:001Jn 3:4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating T...1Jn 3:4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah — indeed, sin is violation of Torah.Tabernacle of Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749576853042463387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-80774188452012954842011-05-02T10:21:18.985-05:002011-05-02T10:21:18.985-05:00Very true, James. And, of course, no apology neces...Very true, James. And, of course, no apology necessary. It all comes with the territory here, apparently.<br /><br />But yeah, you're right. No one should be faulted for choosing things for themselves. I certainly don't enjoy being attacked for my choices. I have to walk my zealot every few hours.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05575110651129425906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-47149715917668439692011-05-02T09:11:03.152-05:002011-05-02T09:11:03.152-05:00And yes, while not evil, attending the average chu...<i>And yes, while not evil, attending the average church can be pretty difficult to endure. My wife and I have tried to appease some of her family members on several occasions, so I know what I'm talking about. Pardon me please.</i><br /><br />Didn't mean to come on so strong, Luke. Sorry. It's just that among some congregations in the "Messianic" world, there can be a prejudice against churches. If this particular couple needs to have what they find in a church, I'm not going to say they shouldn't do it. We all choose the faith communities with which we associate based on what we think is right and what we believe we need. Given the various folks who comment here, I think we represent the statement that we don't all look for exactly the same things in a community. But despite that, we are all part of the larger community of the body of the Messiah, even though we give each other a hard time.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-34060703775744663892011-05-02T08:22:41.435-05:002011-05-02T08:22:41.435-05:00"What community are you speaking of, the BE b..."What community are you speaking of, the BE bunch? I would not have been caught dead identifiying with them racists."<br /><br />For the sake of truth and to correct gross slander of Jews everywhere on the part of Mr. Benzvi, Judaism and Jewishness is not based on race. Jews are a family and a people, first and foremost. Yes, most of us are descended from our Jewish forefathers, but Jews come in all shapes and colors. What's more, a person of any "race" can convert and become a "Jew". He won't convert to another race, because... again, being Jewish is not a racial category. Historically, there have been many Gentiles and today there are also many who have converted to Judaism. In the Messianic Jewish Movement there are many Gentiles who agree with the principals of Bilateral Ecclesiology and some converted to became Jews. So much for them "racists" Jews.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-64735645218520799662011-05-02T05:22:37.779-05:002011-05-02T05:22:37.779-05:00Luke,
What community are you speaking of, the BE ...Luke,<br /><br />What community are you speaking of, the BE bunch? I would not have been caught dead identifiying with them racists.<br /><br />God is the God of everyone despite what the Shlomivtches of the world think....Gene is a bomb thrower himself, but he does not like the bombs thrown on himself. Galut mentality.....Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-81977876254672039952011-05-02T00:23:41.911-05:002011-05-02T00:23:41.911-05:00Oh, and Rick! You weren't there when I was spe...Oh, and Rick! You weren't there when I was speaking for everybody, so if you show once everyone has been spoken for, you'll have to speak for yourself.<br /><br />PS. I think it odd how your pal, Dan, shows his "zeal for community". If that's his community outreach, I'd hate to see him disruptive and immature.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05575110651129425906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-71926781705733915072011-05-02T00:07:18.572-05:002011-05-02T00:07:18.572-05:00Dan, I've been here since 2007, so who's l...Dan, I've been here since 2007, so who's late? And who is this Johann character?<br /><br />Gene, great to know you've got effective churches around you (and that you guys are all super chummy), but I must respectfully disagree with you concerning that silly stuff.<br /><br />How on earth can you say what "Torah" others will be judged by. Are we able to pick different Torahs? No one told me. Is the observing of Christmas and Easter the "instruction" given to Christians by G-d? If so, where do you draw the line? Or is there a line at all, once you've personally determined how G-d judges the nations? What do you think of the Catholics? How do they fare at the throne? They do a bunch of good stuff. Heck! they invented all those holidays you "fully support" Christians celebrating. They must pass with flying colors. What about Mormons? Buddhists? Lawyers?<br /><br />If community service = salvation, maybe you should probably let Christianity know.. cause all this time they've been telling folks that Judaism is a works based religion.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05575110651129425906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-56519275713134365082011-05-01T22:02:15.558-05:002011-05-01T22:02:15.558-05:00"Gene, you must have some awesome churches wh..."Gene, you must have some awesome churches where you live, because they're sure not like that around these parts."<br /><br />Luke, indeed we do. There are plenty of good solid churches doing the things I described. I know many of the pastors, elders and congregants personally and the work they do. Yes, these Christians may celebrate Easter or Christmas (and I fully support them in this), but I have no doubt in my mind that these things they do for G-d and people is the only Torah that G-d requires of them, and the only one He will judge them by.Gene Shlomovichhttp://dailyminyan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-22231464193420183412011-05-01T20:38:58.502-05:002011-05-01T20:38:58.502-05:00Luke,
"Dan, I'm pretty sure I speak for ...Luke,<br /><br />"Dan, I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone here..."<br /><br />But you are not completely sure, are you? Johanny come lately.....Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-10786847587321514622011-05-01T20:36:33.129-05:002011-05-01T20:36:33.129-05:00I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone here
LO...<i>I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone here </i><br /><br />LOL. Not me. I've known my Israeli friend Dan for many years, and I always like his chutzpah and his zeal for community.Rick Spurlockhttp://www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65071296666978532552011-05-01T19:14:00.539-05:002011-05-01T19:14:00.539-05:00Dan, I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone here...Dan, I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone here when I ask that you please go write this stuff on Gene's blog instead, if you must. If you haven't noticed, we have a fairly lengthy, multi-dimensional discussion going on already without hosting an argument over who fought in the IDF, or not.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05575110651129425906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-30658502997718392822011-05-01T18:53:46.968-05:002011-05-01T18:53:46.968-05:00Gene,
The galut is in your mind Moron...I was the...Gene,<br /><br />The galut is in your mind Moron...I was there when a nation was born, my family fauught for it, your family on the other hand decided to go to America and wash your hands from the Jewish struggle. You changed one Parits Goy with another more tolerant. So stop standing up for the Jews in the diaspora, you have an alternative, you are old enough to make Aliah and serve in the IDF. Otherwise your words ring hollow.<br /><br />I served, you did not, so put up or shut up. Oh, Yah, you are still a shmuck....LOL!Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-9360126652964344882011-05-01T18:50:45.914-05:002011-05-01T18:50:45.914-05:00Seriously? Is this even acceptable? Can we, as log...Seriously? Is this even acceptable? Can we, as logical, fair adults, just throw around statements of <i>Most-this</i> and <i>Less-that</i>, without providing even a shred of statistical information and expect to be taken seriously?!<br />On top of that, doing it all in the name of attacking other believers we talk with daily? How strange and immature.<br /><br />Gene, you must have some awesome churches where you live, because they're sure not like that around these parts.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05575110651129425906noreply@blogger.com