tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post8061508612629021812..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Some things we agree onJudah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-50896264544140232332010-07-30T12:08:13.145-05:002010-07-30T12:08:13.145-05:00This is the danger in generalizing and stereotypin...This is the danger in generalizing and stereotyping. If some people don't like me or don't agree with how I express my worship and faith, I can understand. All I ask is that you judge me for who I am, not who you imagine me to be.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-65166640844977242102010-07-30T07:00:14.269-05:002010-07-30T07:00:14.269-05:00@James: well that sure looks like "loving dee...@James: well that sure looks like "loving deeds" (certainly like "pure and undefiled religion." <br /><br />Maybe I misunderstood the two or three on the other blog who were compelled to pile on "One Law" lacking in "loving deeds" - maybe they meant people who <b>call</b> themselves "One Law" are lacking in deeds. In that case, since there is no such narrow box, maybe they are correct < grin >.Rick Spurlockhttp://www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-25393415636017442542010-07-30T06:46:58.164-05:002010-07-30T06:46:58.164-05:00@Rick, Yes. We aren't large and we don't h...@Rick, Yes. We aren't large and we don't have a lot of money. I wanted to reach out beyond our walls to the rest of the community and involve everyone in the congregation. It seemed that even if each person brought one canned good a week, it wouldn't put an undo burden on the person but it would make a difference, even a small one, in the world.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-42293824865859708382010-07-29T19:18:48.323-05:002010-07-29T19:18:48.323-05:00@James, thanks for the link. Is that the congregat...@James, thanks for the link. Is that the congregation that you are a part of?Rick Spurlockhttp://Www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-68065735130270695202010-07-29T15:13:44.864-05:002010-07-29T15:13:44.864-05:00That's also an assumption of MJ that all OL co...That's also an assumption of MJ that all OL congregations everywhere are insular, theologically "incestuous", and are all about circling their wagons. While that may be true of some, or even most OL congregations, unless you contacted each and every one of them, and saw what they were doing, how would you know? For instance: <a href="http://www.shema-yisrael.org/ministries.html" rel="nofollow">Feeding the Poor</a>.<br /><br />You don't have to have a multi-million dollar organization to obey the teachings of Messiah and to live out the will of God.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-38511356857905253772010-07-29T10:11:12.373-05:002010-07-29T10:11:12.373-05:00@James: Yes, one would think that we all have &quo...@James: Yes, one would think that we all have "good deeds" in common, and yet on another blog there were some disturbing comments about the lack of "deeds" on the part of the "One Law" camp. The comment was then repeated by another poster. <br /><br />Deeds are the measurement of our fidelity to the King of the Universe. When one side accuses others of lacking deeds, they are questioning our loyalty to Messiah. In my mind, that is far more serious than "doctrinal disagreement."Rick Spurlockhttp://www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-3027653765237266872010-07-29T09:04:40.501-05:002010-07-29T09:04:40.501-05:00Rick, "good deeds" or "fruit" ...Rick, "good deeds" or "fruit" is really the thing I think all our different groups have in common, assuming we're all really obeying what Yeshua taught. If we're visiting the sick, feeding the hungry, supporting the poor, nurturing the widow and orphan, then we are all more alike than unalike.<br /><br />Nevertheless, we use these forums to check each other's oil levels with various dipsticks, seeing if we measure up, so to speak. While there are lines that, if we cross them theologically, we are not part of the body of Messiah, I'm starting to believe there's a range of acceptable behaviors, particularly for Gentile believers, that validly exist within that body. If we accept that our brothers and sisters in the Sunday church are within Messiah's body, it's very likely that most of us are there with them.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-981234663345879222010-07-29T07:33:55.068-05:002010-07-29T07:33:55.068-05:00I really like what Rick said! Lots to ponder there...I really like what Rick said! Lots to ponder there as far as relating to those who disagree with us and may not subscribe exactly to our "statement of faith". Should we be "thought cops" or "fruit inspectors"?<br /><br />Someone recently told me that if I were to visit a Conservative synagogue, people would not ask me what I believe until they got to know me quite well. He said Jewish people are not like Christians in that regard. They care more about what you do than what you believe. True?Tandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-17941488789324410092010-07-28T20:41:36.560-05:002010-07-28T20:41:36.560-05:00Well Said Judah. There are many things that we can...Well Said Judah. There are many things that we can agreee on.<br /><br />C.F. Remember me?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-22947223793429652602010-07-28T10:42:21.479-05:002010-07-28T10:42:21.479-05:00@James, I wasn't disagreeing that theological ...@James, I wasn't disagreeing that theological constructs are part of our way of processing information - simply that the "idea" is not where we should be seeking absolute agreement. Rather, loyalty to HaShem (evident through deeds) is where we should find unity.<br /><br />Imagine the 12 Tribes in the Wilderness. They did not need to agree about the ontology of HaShem, or whether the korbanot were subtituionary or temporally efficacious. They simply needed to act upon the revelation of HaShem by obeying His instructions. They thus showed their loyalty to the King of the Universe.<br /><br />I think it is human nature to want to control the thoughts of others. Those coming from a Christian background seem to be most dependent upon theological agreement. It may originate the creed-based community agreement that is either written, or simply quietly agreed to.<br /><br />I want to resist my own tendency toward being a thought cop. Rather, I want to be a fruit inspector. As a fruit inspector, I can learn from, and agree with, a wide range of theologies. I find "unity in loyalty to HaShem" with Chabad, some Christian denominations, Orthodox and Conservative Judaism, and even (shock) MJ/BE. < grin >Rick Spurlockhttp://www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-30340634238174650402010-07-28T09:52:38.955-05:002010-07-28T09:52:38.955-05:00Nice, enjoy your vacation, Y. :-)Nice, enjoy your vacation, Y. :-)Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-34861908907400881952010-07-28T09:04:53.928-05:002010-07-28T09:04:53.928-05:00Judah,
Sorry I'm late to the party (I'm o...Judah,<br /><br />Sorry I'm late to the party (I'm on vacation). I'd just like to say I think this list is very helpful, and I affirm all the points. Thanks for posting it!<br /><br />YahnatanYahnatanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02321984415847643594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-8909539245798797312010-07-28T08:51:15.609-05:002010-07-28T08:51:15.609-05:00I'd like to say "yes" Rick, but huma...I'd like to say "yes" Rick, but human nature says otherwise. Also, to a degree, we will never be free of our various theologies because theology is the interface or "GUI" with which we interact with the Bible. It's how we operationalize our responsibilities and our responses to God in a behavioral fashion. If we just had one theology, I suppose it wouldn't be a problem, but human beings often, even with the best of intentions, recreate our response to God in our own image.<br /><br />As optimistic as I'd like to be about the larger body of faith in the world, we will never be truly united until the Messiah returns. He really needs to straighten us all out.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-9198157668042497802010-07-28T07:22:01.397-05:002010-07-28T07:22:01.397-05:00I can feel the love in the room right now... (laug...I can feel the love in the room right now... (laughing).<br /><br />@Allison, my wife's take on reading the comments on Seth's blog was very similar to yours. I tried to add to the ugliness, but apparently my brand of ugliness was uglier still, and my comments were not posted < grin >.<br /><br />@Nice job Judah, but this is a blog, we can't have all the comments warm and fuzzy can we? <br /><br />Richard Rubenstein's "When Jesus Became G-d" is a classic when it comes to the evil that goes on when people try to define "beliefs." Because of his background in conflict resolution, his treatment of the dispute between Athanasius and Arius is particularly interesting to me. The nuances of the two positions morphed into at least 4 positions over a generation. Once the fragmentation was complete, (and the parties were tired of murdering each other), they found common ground in carefully chosen words that made absolutely no real difference. In my view, both sides were particularly wrong because they were wrong in deeds.<br /><br />Our perceptions will never mesh. Agreement on theological points is only possible at the surface level, because our words don't always mean the same things. Loyalty to a creed is a purely man-made invention. It is neither biblical, nor is it helpful.<br /><br />The question is, can we ditch the theological boxes and focus on good deeds?Rick Spurlockhttp://www.bereansonline.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-5480957534205751242010-07-27T15:00:24.090-05:002010-07-27T15:00:24.090-05:00Tandi = (aka) Maureen LaFaiveTandi = (aka) Maureen LaFaiveTandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-64264661894285552122010-07-27T14:52:25.531-05:002010-07-27T14:52:25.531-05:00@Allison,
Shalom fellow horse lover! I will be in...@Allison,<br /><br />Shalom fellow horse lover! I will be interested to read your blog, as I have a couple of Haflingers myself and have always loved horses.<br /><br />Welcome to the fray! You may not have liked my comments at Seth's, but I give Seth much credit for dialoguing with me. Others who disagree with me will not even publish my comments.<br /><br />Believe it or not, we all have affection and respect one for another, though it may not always come across. Many of us have known each other for several years through blogs and forums. We used to have forums to discuss things more privately, but those have been shut down or become exclusionary. So we wander around the blogosphere, speaking whatever is on our hearts and minds, trying to better understand one another and reach some consensus eventually. We may be strongly opinionated, but it is all in good fun for the most part. Maybe we love to argue. Maybe we feel we are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered. Maybe we are trying to sort things out. Iron sharpeneth iron....<br /><br />Blog dialogue is not for the faint of heart or the thin-skinned. I have had to put on some callouses to bear up to it...........but come on in, the water is fine! We are not as mean as we sound sometimes. : )Tandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-43886191290831927292010-07-27T14:41:12.267-05:002010-07-27T14:41:12.267-05:00@Dan Oh Wow! I grew up in Las Vegas. Lived there f...@Dan Oh Wow! I grew up in Las Vegas. Lived there from 1964 to 1976. Moved away and only went back to visit when my parents still lived there. After they retired to Utah, it never occurred to be to go back to "sin city" (though I have some fond memories of the place). Say "hi" to the Valley of Fire for me. :)Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-64848255655158384532010-07-27T14:33:39.008-05:002010-07-27T14:33:39.008-05:00Anon, I don't even spell the word "colour...Anon, I don't even spell the word "colour" the same as anyone else on this thread!Joseph Whttp://roshpinaproject.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-54056127405105489332010-07-27T14:24:54.316-05:002010-07-27T14:24:54.316-05:00This has been amusing, because many labeling thems...This has been amusing, because many labeling themselves as "Messianic" in some way or another cannot even agree on the color of an orange.<br /><br />(And even if they do agree on the color, do they pronounce the word correctly?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-71289048375595499722010-07-27T14:17:31.383-05:002010-07-27T14:17:31.383-05:00@Dan, hahah, there we go, party at Dan's place...@Dan, hahah, there we go, party at Dan's place in Vegas.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-34368384254058573342010-07-27T14:17:01.867-05:002010-07-27T14:17:01.867-05:00@James, hot? LOL. Maybe for 2 months of the year, ...@James, hot? LOL. Maybe for 2 months of the year, it gets 80-90 degrees. The rest of the year, it's FREAKIN' COLD. Oh, and the mosquitos are terrible, yeah. :-)Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-31464308477706842332010-07-27T13:45:44.342-05:002010-07-27T13:45:44.342-05:00We should definitely all have a huge party somewhe...We should definitely all have a huge party somewhere.Joseph Whttp://roshpinaproject.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-72990874438105441202010-07-27T13:43:07.992-05:002010-07-27T13:43:07.992-05:00Hey guys, I am in Las Vegas, I know you all want t...Hey guys, I am in Las Vegas, I know you all want to come to sin city. I will be waiting....Dan Benzvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411063743206730041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-42987968905254992782010-07-27T12:48:51.778-05:002010-07-27T12:48:51.778-05:00@Allison, I meant "talky" in that you ma...@Allison, I meant "talky" in that you maintain four separate blogs. ;-) Glad you came to the party. <br /><br />@Joe, If you ever make it to Southwestern Idaho, we can break bread together.<br /><br />@Judah, Minnesota summons visions of hot, humid, and mosquitoes. Tell me I'm wrong. :)Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593266343873200105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-16890135957274884582010-07-27T12:48:13.296-05:002010-07-27T12:48:13.296-05:00Ace, will try to make it over there :)Ace, will try to make it over there :)Joseph Whttp://roshpinaproject.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com