tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post3228293708743175680..comments2023-08-16T07:20:09.921-05:00Comments on Kineti L'Tziyon קנאתי לציון: Power to the [lay]people!Judah Gabriel Himangohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-33717478397425130802009-05-13T21:47:00.000-05:002009-05-13T21:47:00.000-05:00I have read all the comments on higher education, ...I have read all the comments on higher education, and to be quiet honest, sounds like a few are swimming in jealousy. I'm a jew, and believe me, I have seen MORE JUNK put out by the so called "Messianic/Hebraic/Jewish Roots" teachers than I care to talk about. I'm so thankful that there are very educated scholars to help us "Lay people" not to put out false teachings. We need to gather facts and orgins before we put together books and CD's and SELL THEM. I SEE THIS ALL THE TIME. I know the blog wasn't as serious as what I'm talking about, but believe me, there alot of false teaching's put out by "Lay people".....everyone should have a say, but not everyone will be correct, we need to be careful of what we teach.....teachers are held to a higher accountablity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-82959562844188639962009-04-20T13:08:00.000-05:002009-04-20T13:08:00.000-05:00Philippians 2:12,13
Therefore, my dear friends, as...Philippians 2:12,13<br />Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. <br /><br />2 Timothy 2:15<br />Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.<br /><br />Sounds to me like the "lay-person" shouldn't rely on the learned to tell him what to do. He should find out for himself. When it all comes down to it, the Pope, Rick Warren, or some other famous preacher isn't going to save me, only Jesus will.JasonHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944368448232887923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-11454182784338517982009-04-16T23:16:00.000-05:002009-04-16T23:16:00.000-05:00Shalom Judah, sorry about the late post but I have...Shalom Judah, sorry about the late post but I have been away from the blog scene for a while. I enjoyed your rant tremendously. I too am quite educated in nontheological areas. In fact, part of my education happened in a small college in Romeoville by your Joliet. My theology training came when I discovered the Sabbath and had 8-10 hours to fill. I know many of the leaders and have had many of the same discussions you have had. Regarding the calendar, I always ask: If I am trying to convince my Christian brother of the need to keep Torah because the bible says so, then how can I say that I do not follow the biblical calendar out of solidarity with the Jews? That is like keeping Easter out of solidarity with the Christians and after all, who do we have the most in common with? We must first be consistant with our walk. Shalom, JeffAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-46576222692922528372009-04-10T12:15:00.000-05:002009-04-10T12:15:00.000-05:00Aaron,I let out an audible "ha-HAH!" as I read tha...Aaron,<BR/><BR/>I let out an audible "ha-HAH!" as I read that. :)Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-48953949357751903902009-04-10T05:11:00.000-05:002009-04-10T05:11:00.000-05:00Judah, it appears Captain Obvious has some sort of...Judah, it appears Captain Obvious has some sort of star-and-crescent symbol on his chest. Perhaps he was instructing you to look in the Quran?A. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17290668816169371637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-53841814160438656822009-04-09T10:49:00.000-05:002009-04-09T10:49:00.000-05:00Thanks, Carmen, glad you enjoyed it.God's done som...Thanks, Carmen, glad you enjoyed it.<BR/><BR/>God's done something similar with me, helping me to grow up through these things.<BR/><BR/>Hope ya stick around!Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-60982338034645159422009-04-09T10:41:00.000-05:002009-04-09T10:41:00.000-05:00Tasty! People ask me how I know what (little ;o))...Tasty! <BR/><BR/>People ask me how I know what (little ;o)) I know about the Scriptures...(I'm a Reformed Heathen and Recovering Legalist, ya see) and I tell 'em 'I go to Mary Seminary'...At the feet of Jesus!<BR/><BR/>Sha'ul said twice to both Timothy and Titus 'don't let anyone look down you' [on the contrary, set the believers an example in your speech, behavior, love, trust and purity.-1Tim.4:12/Titus 2:15].<BR/><BR/>I suppose that's what we do best as mere humans...look down our noses at one another for whatever reasons. <BR/><BR/>But, ya know, there's never been a time in my life that I wasn't looked down upon and ADONAI didn't use it to build me up and conform me to the image of His Blessed Son. <BR/> <BR/>"For it is to this that you have been called, so that you may receive a blessing." 1 Peter 3:9 (a smooth WORN OUT chapter in my CJB)<BR/><BR/>shalom aleichem!<BR/>fun blog!Carmenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01268162540265138219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-37431051938882849042009-04-08T18:21:00.000-05:002009-04-08T18:21:00.000-05:00Lol. Nice.I loved the car parking one from the oth...Lol. Nice.<BR/><BR/>I loved the <A HREF="http://xkcd.com/562/" REL="nofollow">car parking one</A> from the other week. :-)Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-76030024975478827712009-04-08T17:58:00.000-05:002009-04-08T17:58:00.000-05:00I LOVE xkcd!It's the spiders...I LOVE xkcd!<BR/><BR/>It's <A HREF="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_h-_x0ZM5XMI/SSaB8W4HQWI/AAAAAAAAAtQ/E78oaHjZpkE/s1600-h/spiders.png" REL="nofollow">the spiders...</A>P. H. Athertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02525136600124823594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-31220575514411278912009-04-08T12:27:00.000-05:002009-04-08T12:27:00.000-05:00"I do believe that this is the first time I've see...<I>"I do believe that this is the first time I've seen xkcd embedded in a messianic blog."</I><BR/><BR/>Hahah! Glad somebody recognized it. :-) I'm the pioneer of utilizing XKCD in a Messianic blog. First for everything. Wahooo! :-)Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-69637110884444928492009-04-08T12:21:00.000-05:002009-04-08T12:21:00.000-05:00"Thanks! I'm glad *somebody* has a sense of humor...."Thanks! I'm glad *somebody* has a sense of humor. I was beginning to wonder if I offended people with some of the humor. Religious people are too easily offendable and too stuffy."<BR/><BR/>It was obvious from this post of the post that you have a rather unique sense of humor from a lot of religious people. I do believe that this is the first time I've seen xkcd embedded in a messianic blog. :)jonbozehttp://messianicnoachide.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-67253728551951302412009-04-08T11:02:00.000-05:002009-04-08T11:02:00.000-05:00Tandi,Thanks! I'm glad *somebody* has a sense of h...Tandi,<BR/><BR/>Thanks! I'm glad *somebody* has a sense of humor. I was beginning to wonder if I offended people with some of the humor. Religious people are too easily offendable and too stuffy. As the Proverb goes, "A merry heart does good like a medicine." :-)<BR/><BR/>I haven't heard of that teaching before, the one about the Nicolatians theology meaning a hierarchical system. I'll look into that. I'm skeptical because Paul says some things that seem to suggest a hierarchal system. (Haven't studied this deeply, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.) I'll look into it.<BR/><BR/>You said,<BR/><BR/><I>"We can travel a path together without walking in rigid conformity of thought."</I><BR/><BR/>Yes! Well said.<BR/><BR/>Shalom.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-22469725734934662902009-04-08T10:46:00.000-05:002009-04-08T10:46:00.000-05:00P.H.Thanks for posting. I always enjoy reading you...P.H.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for posting. I always enjoy reading your comments, honestly.<BR/><BR/>It's probably not popular to say, but it's what I believe right now: <I>With all other things being equal</I>, we should value the opinion of the educated more than the lesser educated. Often times, though, not all other things are equal. Some laypersons having a prophetic spirit or other annointing from the Lord that is often lacking in the academic folks.<BR/><BR/>Academic folks often dismiss or ignore these qualities in the lesser educated, which contributes to the elitism that Efrayim mentioned, blinding them to works of God in the world.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-19369979744647121742009-04-08T10:36:00.000-05:002009-04-08T10:36:00.000-05:00Efrayim,I don't know where "lay people" came from....Efrayim,<BR/><BR/>I don't know where "lay people" came from.<BR/><BR/>You said,<BR/><BR/><I>"My point being that those religious folks who had spent years of their lives studying Torah, and were confident in their knowledge and understanding of the ways of YHVH, were at the same time unwilling to listen and learn from a common man. Regardless of the great miracle which had taken place."</I><BR/><BR/>Excellent! This highlights that the educated are more susceptible to a kind of elitism that dismisses moves of God. Their noses too buried in study to see what God's doing in the real world.<BR/><BR/>Derek and J.K. are <B>not</B> like this, I'd say, praise God.<BR/><BR/>Interesting sidenote: the Chabad sect of Judaism was founded in part because Judaism was becoming too academic and less practical for the common man who could not dedicate his life to study of the Scriptures. Chabad Judaism reached out to these common Jews and this is undoubtedly part of Chabad's success in the realm of Judaism.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-47820683709496652532009-04-08T09:52:00.000-05:002009-04-08T09:52:00.000-05:00Well written, Judah! Your gentle spirit and sense ...Well written, Judah! Your gentle spirit and sense of humor shine through...and your point is well taken. I can relate to what you are communicating.<BR/><BR/>Yeshua hates the doctrine and deeds of the Nicolaitans (Rev 2). Some say this refers to “lording over the laity” based on the etymology of the word itself. <BR/><BR/>There are various opinions, but I tend to agree with this definition:<BR/><BR/>"Nicolaitans" "refers to the earliest form of the notion of a priestly order, or 'clergy,' which later divided an equal brotherhood into 'priests' and 'laity.'"<BR/><BR/>We are all brothers and sisters, and while there should be congregational leaders, there should not be a hierarchy or elitism. We should respect one another and esteem those highly who labor in the Word and doctrine. We should also be Bereans and check teachings out according to Scripture for ourselves, rather than blindly follow a leader into a ditch.<BR/><BR/>Sharing various viewpoints helps us all clarify what we believe and consider new information. We can travel a path together without walking in rigid conformity of thought.<BR/><BR/>Shalom, TandiTandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-76498130404369573682009-04-08T07:30:00.000-05:002009-04-08T07:30:00.000-05:00EfrayimI think you're quite right. But I don't thi...Efrayim<BR/><BR/>I think you're quite right. But I don't think Judah is wrong, either.<BR/><BR/>Your view of the "layperson" concept belying the proper fellowship relationship is probably entirely biblical (I haven't really studied it). <BR/><BR/>Judah's speaks from the view that there is a perceived heirachy of those with PhD's, theology degrees and purple frocks. It has cast a spell which we all get caught under sometimes.<BR/><BR/>But his conclusion is that no, indeed, "laypeople" can learn and impart much like the more "formally" studied, if they immerse themselves in the word and keep themselves spiritually fit.<BR/><BR/>Most churches, including the one I'm in, will preach a pastor and deacon structure is biblical as per Acts. Again, I haven't studied it in depth so I can't comment. But I listen to them preach safe in the knowledge that they're not necessarily right or know more than me, it's just that they're up there and I'm not.<BR/><BR/>One thing I have noticed on this, is with my work with Australian Christians Supporting Israel (www.acsisrael.org). We bombard Christian publications with letters and op-eds where Christian leaders have vilified Israel from their "human rights" platforms. The reactions are becoming increasingly hostile.<BR/><BR/>I think one of the reasons they get hostile is that they're losing control. Individuals in congregations are learning the Bible for themselves. They're discovering, for example, that the Abrahamic covenant was unconditional, which means we have a gentile obligation to support the Jewish people's regathering. People are discovering for the first time the early church's anti-semitism, and that it has carried over to today. The leaders are becoming scared of the "laypeople", which I think relates to this post.<BR/><BR/>Shalom ben ElohimP. H. Athertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02525136600124823594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-87747822878711048332009-04-07T18:52:00.000-05:002009-04-07T18:52:00.000-05:00Judah,I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but...Judah,<BR/><BR/>I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but just where in the world did the concept of "lay people" come from?<BR/><BR/>I know that the "church" came up with a plan to establish their own earthly priesthood in order to subjugate the "lay people", but it is not something I have found in scripture as a construct of the kingdom of YHVH.<BR/><BR/>In fact, Yeshua spoke directly against this type of relationship between believers.<BR/><BR/>Sure there are those who by reason of anointing and effort have been given places of authority within the congregation of Israel. But it is not to steer the boat. Only to improve and maintain the condition of the sailors (His people).<BR/><BR/>Consider the reaction of the religious leaders at the time of Yeshua on earth when confronted with a mere citizen of no great learning in Torah in regards to the working of YHVH among His people.<BR/><BR/>They were both indignant and disdainful toward the individual who had just had his eyes healed by the Messiah of Israel.<BR/><BR/>My point being that those religious folks who had spent years of their lives studying Torah, and were confident in their knowledge and understanding of the ways of YHVH, were at the same time unwilling to listen and learn from a common man. Regardless of the great miracle which had taken place.<BR/><BR/>While I do appreciate those who are fluent in the Greek and Hebrew languages and their contributions to our understanding of scripture, were I given a choice between a scholar who knew several languages and had studied extensively and someone who hadn't, but had the faith to bring healing to my child who was suffering from cancer, I know to which one I would make the call.<BR/><BR/>Both have a place. But since the latter of the two is less common, we tend to lift up the former to places they shouldn't be occupying.<BR/><BR/>My two cents.<BR/><BR/>Shalom,<BR/><BR/>EfrayimRusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06800949441721572449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-70855871558694900952009-04-07T10:04:00.000-05:002009-04-07T10:04:00.000-05:00Bryan,It's true, we've come a long way. We have th...Bryan,<BR/><BR/>It's true, we've come a long way. We have the Scripture interpreted in our langauge. We have the Scripture easily available for all to read. We have the ability to question our leaders.<BR/><BR/>These are things not possible for laity in past generations.<BR/><BR/>We have made progress. Power to the laypeople. :-)<BR/><BR/>Glad you enjoyed the post.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-23191546281716482302009-04-07T10:02:00.000-05:002009-04-07T10:02:00.000-05:00Lou,Yes, good point. Paul would not be a layperson...Lou,<BR/><BR/>Yes, good point. Paul would not be a layperson, interestingly. But I think all 12 disciples would have been.Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-55200981981356716712009-04-07T08:19:00.000-05:002009-04-07T08:19:00.000-05:00Enjoyed this post. It made me think of times past ...Enjoyed this post. It made me think of times past wherein religious leaders of the day did not even want their lay people to read Scripture, or see the necessity for it to be in their own language.<BR/><BR/>I am thankful that is not where we are at today. I think it is much better to respect the time, study and prayer that those who make faith their full time vocation, as well as those leaders respecting and even encouraging their lay people to read, understand and compare what they say to what Scripture says.<BR/><BR/>It is wonderful that you (and I) can have these types of conversations and even disagreements with those that study theology in much greater detail than we can afford to.<BR/><BR/>We have a great deal to learn from our leaders, and it is great that they are willing to listen to us and respond to us and even encourage us to study more. In other times we might have been told to not speak at all and not given the chance to continue in studying.<BR/><BR/>I know for myself, I can recall times thinking some great Scripture or concept to bring to the Rabbi that will just tear down something he just said. More often than not, it seemed the Rabbi had already heard that argument and stood ready to swat it down like a little pesky fly.<BR/><BR/>Now, I more often approach my leaders with a greater level of respect and still bring up my points, but less in the manner of this must be wrong, because I know what is right and more in the manner of this part of Scripture confuses me, so how do you reconcile what you are teaching with this Scripture? Doing so has helped me to learn more, and maybe occasionally helped me score some points with the Rabbi.Bryan Zhttp://www.ynoti.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-29958443679416474482009-04-06T22:40:00.000-05:002009-04-06T22:40:00.000-05:00The disciples were laypeople and look what they ac...The disciples were laypeople and look what they accomplished with the help of Holy Spirit.<BR/><BR/>Enough said...lsquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14309795798472140682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-87366467580074804792009-04-06T17:23:00.000-05:002009-04-06T17:23:00.000-05:00Oh you lucky dog! Enjoy the vacation, J.K. :-)Oh you lucky dog! Enjoy the vacation, J.K. :-)Judah Gabriel Himangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10277699587853707632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6836835.post-88401887465941792172009-04-06T16:50:00.000-05:002009-04-06T16:50:00.000-05:00I'm on Spring vacation so my Internet time is a li...I'm on Spring vacation so my Internet time is a little limited. I read your blog and I found it amuzing.<BR/><BR/>I still love ya! ;)J.K. McKeehttp://tnnonline.netnoreply@blogger.com