7 Conclusions on Keeping God’s Commandments

What did Jesus teach about the Torah?” – have you read this thing?

Messianic pilgrim-wanderer James Pyles has spent the last couple months digging deep into the question: “Since Yeshua commanded his disciples to ‘Go into all nations, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you’”, what does that mean for gentile followers of Yeshua?

After all, gentiles previously had no relationship to God, Israel, or the Scriptures, let alone the Torah subset. Figuring out what Yeshua meant here is huge.

James has been very fair in his study. He has not made assumptions favoring either One Law or Bilateral Ecclesiology persuasions, rather, he’s kept his nose to the Scriptures. If you don’t believe me, read the comments on his blog, you’ll find UMJC-sympathizing folks like Lasko and Shlomovich concur: James has been fair and kept to the Scriptures, with very little editorializing.

Today, James has posted 7 conclusions he’s drawn from the study so far. These conclusions stick very closely to the text. And because of that, they are very difficult to argue with. I think these might be another set of things One Law and Bilateral Ecclesiology people can agree on.

  1. The Jewish disciples are responsible to teach the Gentile disciples of Yeshua everything Yeshua had taught them. (Matthew 28:19-20)
  2. Yeshua didn't eliminate the Torah but rather, he came as the living embodiment of Torah, to show us that it is possible for a human being to obey God. The Torah is here to stay. (Matthew 5:17-20)
  3. Anyone who breaks a single commandment of the Torah or teaches others to break the commandments will be called "least in the Kingdom of Heaven". Be careful if you tell someone that they don't have to obey a commandment. (Matthew 5:17-20)
  4. If you came to faith in Yeshua as a Jew, stay a Jew. If you came to faith in Yeshua as a Gentile, stay a Gentile. Obeying the commandments is what counts. (1 Corinthians 7:17-20, this is Paul’s “rule in all the churches”)
  5. If you, as a Gentile, convert to Judaism in order to seek justification by the Torah rather than by faith, the Messiah will be of no value to you at all. Faith expressed through love is what counts. (Galatians 5:2-6)
  6. The two greatest commandments, loving God with everything you've got, and loving your neighbor as yourself, exist as two big buckets which contain the sum of the Torah and the Prophets. (Matthew 22:36-40)
  7. Keep all of the law. Don't subdivide it into what you do in the Temple and what you do for human beings, disregarding one and clinging to the other. However, of the two sides of the coin, doing justice, mercy, and faithfulness is more important. (Matthew 23:23-24)

What do you fine blog readers think – granted some nuances in interpretation, can One Law Messianics and Bilateral Ecclesiology Messianics agree on these 7 conclusions?

(Have a good shabbat!)


  1. Actually, I have more conclusions, based on Yeshua's commentary on the Torah found in Matthew 5:21-48. I created another blog post on the topic today. Even on top of that, I just realized that there's another interpretation of the following:

    If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. -James 2:8-10

    Traditional Christianity uses James to say that it's impossible to keep the Torah perfectly, so why even try, but I think James was saying not to get cocky if we keep all of the Torah, except for a few points. People like to say, "I do good most of the time" to point out that they're not really bad, but Paul said that we all have failed God (Romans 3:23). I don't think James was discouraging Torah observance but I think he was saying we can't depend on our observance to justify us before God, since it will never be perfect. This goes back to faith as being the key element in the lives of all believers. We need to be acting out our faith as defined in the commandments, rather than expecting our Torah observance to be a set of "magic behaviors" that make God love us.

  2. Oh, one more thing. While I appreciate the complement, I'm not entirely comfortable being called Messianic congregational leader. While it's true that I'm on the Board of Directors at my congregation and that I have leadership responsibilities, having a "title" creates the illusion that I'm "bigger and badder" than I really am. I appreciate the complement, but in the end, I'm just a pilgrim on the path, like everyone else. I suppose you could just call me "Messianic believer" or Messianic "blogger" or something like that.


  3. Yep, I figure you have plenty more to say. I just wanted to highlight these 7 you listed in your post.

    I've changed your title. :grin:

  4. LOL. Thanks. Makes my second comment kind of odd, but no worries.

    Yeah. I always have more to say. Maybe my "title" should be "Messianic big mouth"? There may be folks out in the Messianic blogosphere that call me worse things. ;-)

  5. Some very good conclusions based on the scriptures. A good study, James!

  6. Do you think that the BE/DI crowd will be satisfied with #7 ?

  7. I'm not sure, Dan. I think I've already drawn some conclusions that should raise a few eyebrows. My most recent blog post in this series should raise a few more. I recall one explanation about why the 10 commandments in the Torah did not apply to the Gentiles was because 1.) they were directed specifically to the Children of Israel and 2.) the Gentiles had the Torah written on our hearts rather than in the Torah.

    However, since Yeshua is specifically addressing the Torah commandments in Matthew 5 and because of the Matthew 28 directive, it seems reasonable to conclude that what Yeshua taught regarding Torah obedience, at least involving these specific commandments, does apply to both Jewish and Gentile disciples.

    Already, Yeshua seems to be applying more of the Torah to Gentile disciples than the Acts 15 letter does, which is the standard of Torah compliance applied to Gentiles by BE/DI. The question then is, can James and the Jerusalem Council override the direct commandments of the Messiah?

    My answer is "no". It's also the subject of my next blog post.

  8. I'm sure BE folks will interpret 'keep all the law' as applying only to Jews, of course, but the point here is, Yeshua actually taught this.

    Bottom line: BE and OL Messianics *can* agree Yeshua did teach "keep all the law".

    Whether all or some or none of that applies to gentiles is what James is still exploring.

  9. I'm fully prepared to continue to explore this topic for the rest of my life. Oh sure, I know that there are more conclusions to be had as a result of further study, and I don't doubt I'll continue blogging about them in the days and weeks ahead, but at once the Word of God is simple enough for a child to understand and complex enough to endlessly fill a scholar's thoughts and dreams. Can I possibly arrive at correct conclusions just by reading the Bible?

    In one sense, I'm a little concerned that all the MJ/BE Biblical experts aren't trying to land on me with both feet. I've got several university degrees, but none of them in Biblical or religious studies, so I'm sure that I'm missing a lot of arcane interpretations. I know for a fact that some of you have graduate degrees directly related to Bible studies. Come on. Don't be shy.

    On the other hand, why would God give us a Bible that was only comprehendable by scholars and experts so that we, the common people, would be lost without an elite authority to guide us? If I'm barking up the wrong tree, feel free to show me reasonably where I've made my error. If my conclusions are sound though, maybe it's time for us to come out of our cocoons and comfort zones and "reason together".

  10. Point 1 assumes that Yehoshua` taught unique teachings. However, this is not the case. Many halakhic and agadic statements he made can be found amidst the Oral Torah.

    Point 2 assumes true the Christian lie stating that the Torah is too hard. The text of the Torah itself says that the Torah is not too hard, and not too far off, nor is it in Heaven. (Deuteronomy 30:11-14). I still wonder why the Tanakh apparently isn't taken seriously.

    Point 3 assumes the Torah, which was given uniquely to the people of Israel, has to also be kept by gentiles (non-Israelites); or it is at least assuming that if you tell a non-Israelite that they don't have to obey commands of Torah given only to Israel, that you're "least in the Kingdom". None of that is true. Only Israelites and those who are becoming Israelites should adhere to the Torah.
    Also, Yehoshua`'s reasoning aligns with the understanding in Judaism that the Israelites who adhere to the commands of Torah are given a higher place in the next world than those who observe less.

    Point 4 needs to clarify that "keeping the commands" is different depending on who it is speaking to. The laws of Torah commanded to Noahh (and his descendants) are to be kept by all. However, the 613 commands of Torah are to be kept only by Israel. In this way Israel is unique, and Israel has a unique duty on earth, as opposed to all the other nations.

    Point 5 totally mangles any concept of the purpose of the Torah. Yehoshua` himself taught, on more than one occasion, that adherence to the Torah is what ensures one a place in the next world. If gentile converts to Judaism, he becomes a Jew and is obligated to the 613 commands. Thus he is deemed righteous by having to adhere to more commands, whereas if he remains a gentile, he is deemed righteous by adherence to the 7 (broken down into 66 base) laws of Noahh.
    The idea of "love" and "faith" in this point is entirely removed from any idea of obedience to the Creator, which in fact is fully intermingled with these two concepts.

    Point 6 cites the "golden rule" of Hillel which Yehoshua` reiterated. This is also a teaching from the Oral Torah; it is saying that instead of the 613 commands being boiled down into the 10 Matters (badly translated "10 Commandments"), they can further be boiled down into 2.

    Point 7 seems a bit odd. It should be obvious that Israel is obligated to all commandments that are applicable at any time. Many commands are dependent on Israel being in the Land, the Temple being rebuilt, and the Mosaic Court being established. As times change, new issues arise, and this is the purpose for the authority of the Sages as ordained in the text of the Torah in multiple places, Deut. 17, for example, is one.

    Unfortunately, to present these ides takes backtracking, because these concepts and issues mentioned were known and assumed by Yehoshua` and those he was teaching to. But it is convenient not to believe that, but to continue to believe that he was teaching something totally different and new, not in line with Judaism. Or that he was teaching a Judaism different enough from the Sages, that is warrants a new sect altogether, with different ideals. That's the folly that led to Christianity. The further Messianics stay away from it, the much better off they will be.

  11. 1. Yeshua's teachings align with good teachings from the rabbis -- righteousness reflected in both. But Yeshua did have unique teachings. Which of the sages taught he was the Son of God, and that no one comes to God except through him? Which of the sages taught his disciples to bring gentiles into the fallen tent of David, baptizing them in his name, teaching them everything he taught his Jewish disciples?

    2. This has nothing to do with the Torah being too hard. You're bringing that baggage into the conversation.

    3. The is the question James is exploring over the last several months: Yeshua taught Torah, then, he commanded his disciples to "teach the gentiles everything I have commanded you". The question being explored is, what, then, should the gentiles be taught? It is more than the so-called Noahide commandments, as Yeshua taught his disciples more than that.

    4. The "gentiles must follow the Noachide commandments to have eternal life" is not anywhere in the Tenakh. The Noachide commandments aren't even given explicitly in the Tenakh to the nations! This theology was invented out of necessity to "do something" with the gentiles. Truth be told: when it comes to having a place the world to come, "God makes no distinction between Jew and gentile".

    5. Yeshua also taught his disciples to "teach the gentiles everything I have commanded you", which includes more than the Noachide commandments. This contradicts your #1 and #3 points.

    6. For once, we agree.

    7. You missed the point. The point is that there are weightier matters of the Torah that the sages of Yeshua's day were missing, and Yeshua commanded us, his disciples, to not make the same mistake.

  12. Can anyone list the Noachide commandments? All 7 of them?

  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

  14. Oh my.

    Between Jewzilla's comments and Judah's responses, I may only be able to adequately reply by writing...another blog post (oh no)! Fortunately, I'm both too busy and too tired to do so right now. Ah, future projects.

    Seriously, thanks for the analysis and attention. I will have a more focused look at your comments when I can give them the concentration they deserve.

    Dan, one version of the Noahide laws can be found at Noahide.org.

  15. 1. Such phrases, the way they are understood by most, are simply contrary to the Tanakh which repeatedly, all over its books, teaches going to the One Creator and Him alone in prayer, repentance, and worship. Anything deviating from that is in serious error.
    I would argue that doing what the Tanakh and the whole Torah says, would be following in the footsteps of Yehoshua`. Rather than interpreting his words contrary to the Tanakh, which will make him look like a rasha` rather than a ssadiq. Yehoshua` taught that eternal life is serving the Creator, doing his commands, out of love and fear. And continually repenting, sincerely, to the Creator, and returning away from sin. Jewish halakha teaches this, as did Yehoshua`. I wonder why you think otherwise?

    And also, they did. Didn't you read my email about the groups of Hillelian Pharisees and Essenes who together sent out emissaries out to the nations to teach them what they must do. And undoubtedly convert to Judaism those gentiles who desired it? The difference was, in those days, there were gentiles interested in Judaism, not into starting their own religion called "Christianity" or "Messianic _____".

    2. Yes it does. "Jesus obeyed the Torah perfectly, like no one else has, therefore we don't have to do it. Because we believe he existed and we believe he is God, that is what gives us eternal life. He paid the price, we can depend on that, and that is our salvation." That silly, childish, and pagan idea certainly, even in the case of most Messianics, leaves it A-OK for Jews to mess up in the observance of the 613 commands (if they're even aspiring to do them), or makes it A-OK for gentiles to not give a flip about what they're required to do.
    In other words this idea which abounds throughout Christianity and Messianism actually takes away eternal life from people. The exact opposite of what it claims. Huge irony. And if people actually did what Yehoshua` said (instead of believing Christian and Messianic doctrines about him), they would have eternal life. That's the difference between following him (doing Torah) and 'believing' in [these erroneous doctrines about] him (making excuses for not doing Torah).

    Rambam's Mishne Torah, hil. Melakhim uMilhhamoth, ch. 11
    "Can there be a greater stumbling block than Christianity? All the prophets spoke of Mashiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior who would gather their dispersed and strengthen their observance of the mitzvot. In contrast, Christianity caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humbled, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the Lord."

    Would you really disagree with that? You'd have to deny a lot of history. Messianism is making many of the same mistakes, by this erroneous idea I quoted above, and by other doctrines which lead people to worship anything other than the Creator, and tells them that they don't really need to do any commands, that they're really not obligated anything besides "believing in Jesus/Yeshua".

  16. 3. It can mean they were either being initiated into Israel or they were remaining gentiles but becoming the righteous, the pious of the nations. For the former, they would be instructed in the 613 commands, which are base-matters of the Torah (the Written Torah) and in the explanation and how-to guide on those 613 (the Oral Torah). The entirety of that teaching obviously isn't contained in Yehoshua`'s recorded teachings. Nor was it meant to be, because Yehoshua` was part of Israel, Judaism, and he did and I'm sure taught the complete Torah as I just described; Written and Oral Toroth.
    If they were remaining gentiles, they would be instructed in the 7 Laws of Noahh (which obviously can be listed, what kind of question is Dan askin??), which break into about 66 base laws, which further may break down into various other commands. All commands break down like this, since there's tons of different circumstances or contexts that can arise. However, if you're a Karaite, this won't happen for you.

    4. Yeah it is. HaShem commanded Noahh, and his descendants. That is in the Tanakh. Further laws were kept by Avraham, as HaShem led him, and then finally it wasn't until Moshe when the whole Torah, the 613 (Written) and their explanation (Oral) were revealed. And that is only for Israel who are the chosen offspring of Avraham and have a special mission in the world. Gentiles who remain as such can be righteous and have a place in the world to come by adhering to what was commanded to Noahh.

    5. Answered in point 3.

    6. Yay!

    7. Those matters are not separate from the Torah, correct. "Weightier matters", sure. Its more weighty to love your neighbor in the Torah community than it is to diligently tithe mint or cumin, or scrupulously inspect your ethrog before Sukoth. True. But what if Jews are taught by this that they can light a fire on Shaboth, or that it is permissible to eat meat from a kosher animal that has not been slaughtered according to the command? What if this is totally misused to say that one should not be scrupulous about inspecting his ethrog on Sukoth? Because one should be, as Yehoshua` continued "...and you were right to do these things..."

    What can be determined in all of this is that to "believe" in Yehoshua` doesn't mean just to believe that he existed, or that he is God (which is not even hinted at in the Tanakh, but such a thought, rather, is condemned). To believe in Yehoshua` should mean to do what he taught. Want eternal life? Adhere to the Torah! To this question he also responded with the Shama`, stating that the Creator is One, not two or a trinity. And that there is NO OTHER besides the Creator who is to be worshiped or prayed-to.
    Know and adhere to that, and you'll be faithfully following in Yehoshua`'s footsteps.
    Yehoshua` also taught that one should never forsake the Torah even unto death. Jews who rejected Jesus/Yeshua the man-god, and adhered to the Torah, and were persecuted and executed for it by the Christians or Muslims - they were people who actually did as taught by Yehoshua`, and thus followed in his footsteps.

  17. How come the noachide laws do not contain the important command: "Be fruitful and multiply?"

  18. The same reason that the command for Israel to live in the Land is not explicitly stated. Its a given. Upon it depends many commands of Torah. In this way its called a "super misswa", heh.

    Likewise, the prohibitions of sexual immorality among the laws of Noahh are based on the understanding that people will be generally multiplying.. via sex, obviously (unless you still believe that stork story, bahaha). Therefore the "be fruitful and multiple" command, which is for everyone, is kind of a given, almost like Israel settling the Land.

  19. Except that God actually told Noah "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the land" in Genesis 9:1, so apparently, it wasn't a "given". The explanation of "it's a given" may work under certain situations, but I don't think it can be used as a blanket statement everytime we come across a situation where we perceive that a commmandment is "absent".

  20. The Sages in tractat Sanhedrin wrote that the "be fruitful and multiply" command was given only to Israel, not to the sons of Noach.

    Like the God of the Jews does not want to populate the world by people who are not Jews....OY VEY!!!

  21. That's hard to fathom, Dan, since the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" command was given by God to both Adam and Noah..who weren't Jews. Obviously I'm no Talmudic scholar, but the plain meaning of the text should count for something.

  22. James,

    it only fits with the rest of rabbinical teaching that Gentiles are out.

  23. Dan, I wasn't aware of that. Where in tractate Sanhedrin is this found? I will take a look at this.

    BTW, in case you're misunderstanding or misquoting this, be aware that such behavior, whether intentional or not, has been used in the murder and persecution of Jews by Nazis and other anti-Semitic Christians.

    But you don't care, I don't think. You care about the guy in the pew, who might hate Jews, rather than your brother in beit kneset whom you despise because he doesn't "believe" in Jesus/Yeshua, and because he listens to the Sages.

  24. I hope you see what your Christianity or whatever you call it has done to you, bro, and I hope you come back one day.

  25. piedraJewzilla,

    You are an idiot with a big mouth.

  26. I must admit that, at least from a casual reading, the view of the Sages toward Gentiles seems a bit "mixed". On the one hand, Sanhedrin 58b says that A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death but Sanhedrin 59a says that the gentile who keeps the Torah is like a Priest. A non-Jew trying to explore the Shabbat and the Torah commandments is bound to feel a little "insecure" under the circumstances.

    Quite some time ago, I wrote a blog post called What Does the Talmud say About Gentiles, which seemed to generally put Gentiles in a favorable light in the opinion of the Sages.

    I'll probably get flamed for this next comment, but I have to believe that the Sages, being human beings living in a world where Gentiles didn't always treat Jews very well (up to and including maiming, torture, and murder), that the learned Rabbis might have let their personal experiences and emotions affect their attitudes and written opinions.

    By the way, if anyone knows of an online resource that presents the full Talmud and is searchable, I'd appreciate a link. Not being a Talmud scholar, it's somewhat difficult to locate proper resources and the full Talmudic writings in hardcopy are a bit hard to carry around in my gym bag.


  27. Dan,

    And you're throwing away your place in the world to come.

    No problem believing Yehoshua` was Messiah. Just don't think he's a man-god, don't worship him, and don't toss out Torah, bro.


    You've been humble and considerate of what I've said here, that's very admirable, thanks. I don't want to just be oppositional. I would rather agree and get along with people all the time. But I think there is more good done by everyone being honest with each other when they think one another is wrong about something, rather than to not say anything.

    Those quotes belong in the context of a gentile who is remaining such. A gentile-gentile. However, if a gentile intends to make himself Israel, it is my understanding that there is no prohibition whatsoever. Context and intention can change everything.

    I think generally, gentiles are idolatrous/pagan. This is why they're generally likened to various animals. Because living for pleasure, power, sex, personal gain -- all of this is a product of giving way to the lusts of the animal soul. Therefore, when people give way to that, they are living as animals. This is the normal, standard behavior for gentiles. As it is even today. Even secularized Jews, or Jews who do not adhere to Torah, act like this.

    Dan might eat pork, because he thinks Jesus freed him from the 'law'. If my understanding is correct, I will gladly accept correction if I'm wrong. That means Dan feels free to not adhere to misswoth, mishpattim, or hhuqim which he is, by birth obligated to, since he was born a Jew. Those misswoth would direct his actions, behaviors, and natural lusts and channel them in the way the Torah regulates. But without them, he is more-so led by his animal lusts and desires. He may eat blood, fat, any animal he wants to eat. He can have sex with his wife if she is menstruating. These all make a Jew more like an animal than human.

    Secular people, gentiles, who seek nothing but personal gain (rather than serving the Creator, as they are obligated), are living much like animals.

    Since this is the norm for gentiles, it is assumed. Special cases are not treated the same way, since they're different from normative gentile behavior. They're righteous gentiles. And there's nothing wrong with being a gentile when you're righteous. There's nothing inferior to it.
    In fact, it may be that Israel is "inferior" in that they are judged as unrighteous by the standard of more commands and a higher level. Same with men having more obligation than women. Women are naturally at a generally higher state than men. Men have more problems, more things to correct. Thus more commands.

  28. James,

    www.mechon-mamre.org has some good resources. They have a Hebrew-English Tanakh on their site, and they have the Mishna, both Talmudhim, Tosefta, and Rambam's Mishne Torah all there on their site, except they're all in Hebrew.
    There is an English Mishne Torah on chabad.org.

    If you don't already know, Mishne Torah is Ramba"m's 'restatement' of the Oral Torah. Very good text to study to understand a largely authentic halakhic approach.

  29. Thanks, Jewzilla. I'm the first person to admit I don't know everything. If I didn't want feedback, I'd create a blog and lockout the comments. I often learn more by how people respond to me than by just expressing my point of view. It's one of the reasons why it can be frustrating when other vocal folks in the MJ movement remain silent, either out of a belief that they're being polite, or because they may think Gentile Messianics who don't agree with their perspective are irrelevant.

    www.mechon-mamre.org seems familiar. I think I must have visited the site some years ago, but misplaced the link since then. I'll explore it when I have more time, as well as spend more time examining the transaction between you and Judah relative to my "7 conclusions".

    For now, my wife's cold has attacked me with a will and I feel like my brain is wrapped boiled rubber and steel wool. I'll post back some details when my head starts working again.

    Good Shabbos.

  30. Excellent James, way to be! =)

    Sounds good, Shabat shalom!!

  31. " But I think there is more good done by everyone being honest with each other when they think one another is wrong about something, rather than to not say anything."

    I was being honest with you when I said that you are an idiot with a big mouth.

    I even affirm it more after I read your stupid last comments. You know nothing about me but have the chutzpah to charcterize and label me. Shows the levelor lack of scholarship you posses.

    I wish you have half the brain of your brother.

  32. Aaron, in the spirit of being honest with each other, you totally avoided the issue. I contended Yeshua did have unique teachings, for example, teaching that he is God's only son. You avoided it by saying phrases like "son of God" are not understood correctly. Are you kidding?

    Come on man, that's not even intellectually honest -- some of 1st century Judaism's leadership understood "son of God" to be as a statement of Messiah being God, to the point they tried to stone him for blasphemy. Don't give me this crap about us not understanding the phrase.

    Here's a bottom line difference between you and I: you think anything outside of Judaism cannot be right, whereas I recognize that Judaism can be wrong, and in fact, was wrong when it rejected Messiah. (Thank HaShem this rejection is temporary.)

    Here's some more truth for you: Yeshua taught things contrary to Judaism's leadership. Judaism was a messy wreck in the first century -- how much more after 2000 years of dispersion? It is possible to follow the Tenakh and not agree with everything in Judaism today.

  33. Judah,
    Sure, different Rabim place emphasis on different things, or even come up with new ideas. Since the Torah is infinite, that is certainly a possibility. What you don't get, what you fail to understand because you are very unlearned and very ignorant, is that the legislation of the Torah would only be subverted by a fool who transgresses the Torah command to adhere to the ruling and direction of the Mosaic Court. Even when Beith Shammai was in authority in the Mosaic Court for a short period of time in the first century CE, Yehoshua` taught to still do what they say.

    You're not following Yehoshua`, who taught to adhere to the ruiling of the Mosaic Court (which is mandated by the written text of the Torah), and who taught to pray to "the Father", the Creator of the universe and He alone. You're not following Yehoshua` by following a new religion that very much departs from who Yehoshua` was, a tafillin binding, ssissith wearing, turban wearing, 3-times-a-day davening, 2-time-a-day Shama` reciting, Written+Oral Torah observant Jew.

    All this ridiculous trash about God having children, which He doesn't since He does not have any body or form - you just have no clue. You're taking "son of God" statements literally. As if someone can be a literal son of the One Creator. It was a miracle that even a manifestation of the presence of HaShem appeared in the Temple. Solomon remarks "the highest Heavens do not contain you.. how than can you be contained in this house?" It is amazing that a mere physical manifestation of the glory of the Creator was able to exist at the Temple.

    Especially when the Tanakh says in blatant terms, at least twice, that God is not a man, and not a son of man.

    You need to start reading Guide for the Perplexed, the first section, where Rambam goes through Hebrew terms used in accounts of "seeing" the Creator, in accounts of Him "standing", "sitting", or his "form", etc, and shows very well, very very precisely, accurately, and truthfully, the proper use of these terms in Hebrew. Their literal and figurative meanings. And by context you can always understand them to be figurative. Since the Creator has no body nor a form, nor any substance to Him. Here's an English translation right online ready to read.

    I know you won't actually read anything or actually look into to anything I'm saying right now. But you might in the future.

  34. Let me continue briefly. You're not following Yehoshua` when you completely throw out his prerequisites for eternal life. Which is adherence to the will of HaShem, His commands; because of a love and fear for Him.
    Instead, you claim a Galatians-like gnostic "believe in Jesus and be saved" garbage which makes no sense, and contradicts the Tanakh and the teachings of Yehoshua`.

    You assume Yehoshua` rejected the first of the basic laws of Torah, to realize the Oneness and supreme authority of the Creator and Him alone.
    Why do you assume such? Because you believe that there IS a second (in blatant violation of the Torah which says THERE IS NO OTHER). You believe Yehoshua` is God, or His literal son. Which both can't be true, but apprently you think there's no conflict.

    All that trash has nothing to do with what Yehoshua` taught. "How to obtain eternal life?...keep the commands", "Why do you call me good? None is good but HaShem".

    If you reject the basic principle of the Oneness of the Creator, and if you worship or pray to another - then you, frankly, are committing idolatry. And if you do not end up repenting for that sin, you will not have a place in the world to come.

    Its not Yehoshua` who is a stumbling block, but the Christians and their doctrines about him. Not only has led to the death of God's people, exile, destruction of Torah; but it leads to telling gentiles "believe in another, besides the Creator", which takes away their place in the world to come. What a terrible thing, these doctrines and this garbage that you apparently still believe to some level.

  35. Dan,

    You've rejected the Torah, right? And I'm assuming you've rejected the Oneness of HaShem.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    But simply put, if these are true, then you've tossed out your eternal life.

    Instead of tossing out nothing but insults, you can go ahead and combine insults with some facts or reasoning. That might make for something. You could actually say something important or with meaning instead of your little girl (or "mickey mouse" should I say?) blabbering.

  36. >> What you don't get, what you fail to understand because you are very unlearned and very ignorant

    LOL. Ok. See, that is your problem. You think most everyone -- particularly people who did not abandon Messiah for modern Judaism as you have -- are ignorant. Its just like Messianics who say the same thing about Christians -- "anyone who was in my place but didn't follow me is ignorant. Therefore, all Christians are ignorant."

    This is a phenomenon I have noticed with Noachides as well. "Dumb Christians. I used to be one. Now I'm a super special noachide. Everyone else is an ignorant Christian."

    This same phenomenon I've seen with converts to Judaism: "Those stupid Christians/Messianics, so ignorant of The Truth!"

    I've seen this same phenomenon with converts to Christianity, like Aviad Cohen, where he trashes his former religion without much grace, "gotta know The Truth, gotta keep it True Jew!"

    You're following the same pattern, Aaron. You were in Place A, you moved to Place B, now you think most everyone in Place A is ignorant or unlearned. It's an amusing phenomenon, if only for its predictability and almost universal adoption across religions.

    By the way, you once again totally avoided the issue: the religious leadership of Yeshua's day took "son of God" to be literal, such that they tried to stone the Messiah for blasphemy. I'm taking it the same way they took it, but instead of stoning him, I worship him, as did his disciples.

    Your current view of Yeshua is not supported by the New Testament. Your current view of Yeshua is influenced by people that hate him. You'll change. It will take time. But you will.

  37. Judah,

    I posted Sanhedrin 59:72. So far no reply, nada, zilch. Only attacking the messanger. That is not scholarship, that is idiocy....

  38. Getting back to that point Dan, is this the specific quote?

    R. Johanan said: A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death, for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance; it is our inheritance, not theirs. Then why is this not included in the Noachian laws? — On the reading morasha [an inheritance] he steals it; on the reading me'orasah [betrothed], he is guilty as one who violates a betrothed maiden, who is stoned. An objection is raised: R. Meir used to say. Whence do we know that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest? From the verse, [Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:] which, if man do, he shall live in them. Priests, Levites, and Israelites are not mentioned, but men: hence thou mayest learn that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest! — That refers to their own seven laws.

    I found it at this rather interesting website.

  39. Just posted the final blog post in the series with all my conclusions.