God's Calendar vs Man's Calendar

*Update*: some Jewish friends have taken offense to this post, as I mention some non-Biblical things in the Jewish calendar. The point isn't to condemn the Jewish calendar, as it is much more Scriptural than the western calendar, but instead to point out the few places it deviates from the calendar God gave us in the Torah.

The secular western calendar in use today is very different from the Biblical calendar.

Unlike the western calendar, God's calendar doesn't have months named after false gods:


  • January is named after the Roman god Janus.

  • February is named after the pagan cleansing ritual known as februa.

  • March is named after the Roman god Mars.

  • April is named after the Roman sexual goddess Aphrilis, also known as Aphros or Aphrophdite.

  • May is named after Maia, a Roman goddess of fertility.

  • June is named after the Roman goddess Juno.

  • July is named after the Roman emperor-worshipped-as-god, Divine Julius Caesar.

  • August is named after the Roman emperor, Augustus, who, upon his death, was claimed to have joined the Roman pantheon as a god.



Only the remaining months, September, October, November, December, are neutral and secular in meaning, having their names derived from Latin numbers.

Also unlike the western gentile calendar, the Biblical calendar does not have days of the week named after false gods:


  • Monday is named after Mona, the pagan Gemanic god.

  • Tuesday is named after the Nordic god Tyr.

  • Wednesday is named after the Germanic god Woden.

  • Thursday is named after the Nordic god Thor.

  • Friday is named after the Nordic god Frejya.

  • Saturday is named after the Roman god Saturn.

  • Sunday is named after the Germanic sun goddess Sunne.

In addition to the days of the week and most of the month names, the western gentile calendar also has many holidays named after false gods, or derived from a false god but have since been renamed.

  • The Lent holiday is derived from the Babylonian god Tammuz, in which 40 days are spent weeping for his death.

  • The Easter holiday, exactly 40 days after the beginning of Lent, is in honor of Tammuz' mother goddess, Ishtar. Easter is celebrated as Tammuz is resurrected back to life as the reincarnation of his father god, Nimrod.

  • The Christ's Mass holiday (Christmas) is celebrated on December 25th as it was the birthday of Deus Sol Invictus, the "invicible sun" god of the Romans, a title given to the false gods Mithras, Sol, Elagabalus, and Mars. Some scholars suggest that Tammuz was also believed to have been born on December 25th.

  • Most of the paraphernalia associated with the big holidays can be traced back to pagan origins. For example, Christmas trees, Yuletide, Easter eggs, and Easter rabbits in conjunction with these festivals are of pagan origin.


What about the Jewish Calendar?


Some folks think the Jewish calendar to be the Biblical calendar. Unfortunately, this is not quite so; the Jewish calendar in use today mostly Biblical, but also mixes some elements of the Babylonian calendar picked up during the Israelite captivity some 2600 years ago.

For example, the Jewish calendar kept today by modern Jews has month names taken from Babylonian paganism: the Jewish month of Tammuz is named after the Babylonian god Tammuz, who's worship is mentioned in Scripture as an abomination, and who's death was mourned for 40 days prior to the day of his mother goddess, Ishtar.

(As mentioned prior, to this day, Christians celebrate this pagan holiday in the form of 40 days of Lent leading up to Easter, replacing 40 days of weeping for Tammuz with 40 days of fasting for Jesus, replacing Ishtar Day with Easter Day.)

The Jewish year starts in the middle of the calendar on a Jewish holiday not found in Scripture, a holiday called Rosh HaShanah ("head of the year"), which may be Babylonian in origin. It should be noted that while Rosh HaShanah is not Scriptural, it is celebrated at the same time as the Scriptural Yom Teruah, and the two are often interchangeable in modern times.

Ironically, because the Jewish calendar is a mix of God's calendar and the Babylonian calendar, Jews are left with the uncomfortable reality that the "head of the year" falls in the 7th month of the calendar! Yes, it's true, Jews say "happy new year" not in the first month of the year, but half-way through the Jewish year!

Unlike the western pagan calendar, the day names in the Jewish calendar tell a better story: they are the same day names in God's calendar.


So What Is God's Calendar?


God's calendar is the calendar He gave to his people in Scripture. Unlike the western calendar, God's calendar is based around lunar cycles. It also utilizes agriculture and natural ripening of crops to determine seasons.

And unlike the western calendar and the Jewish calendar, God's calendar does not have any months or days named after false gods.

According to Scripture, here are the days of the week we are to use:

  • Yom Rishon (יום ראשון), "First Day"

  • Yom Sheni (יום שני), "Second Day"

  • Yom Shlishi (יום שלישי), "Third Day"

  • Yom Revi (יום רבעי), "Fourth Day"

  • Yom Hamishi (יום חמישי), "Fifth Day"

  • Yom Shishi (יום ששי), "Sixth Day"

  • Yom Shabbat (יום שבת or more usually שבת), "Sabbath"
In God's calendar, a new day doesn't start at midnight. Rather, the day starts at sundown and ends at sundown. Thus, the Biblical sabbath starts Friday at sundown and lasts until Saturday at sundown.

The names of the months are equally as simple as the days, Torah simply calls them "First Month", "Second Month", etc. The first month also goes by the name HaAviv or HaAbib in the Torah, meaning the month of "the aviv (ripe) barley", indicating that finding naturally ripe barely in the land indicates the beginning of the first month. God's calendar has 12 months typically, but a 13th month is inserted if barley is not naturally ripe by the end of the 12th month in Israel.

In God's calendar, there are holidays which God calls "My appointed times" (Lev 23), eternal landmarks in time we're commanded to remember all our generations. There are 7 Feasts of the Lord, (7 being a Hebrew number of completion), 8 if you count the weekly Sabbath (8 being a number of new beginnings). Here are the holidays God instituted, listed in the order they occur:

  • Passover - 1st month, day 14. This year, Passover will fall in April in the western calendar.

  • Unleavened Bread - 1st month, day 15, the day after Passover. This is a 7 day-long festival. We see Messiah and his apostles celebrating this Feast and the Passover in the gospels.

  • First Fruits - 1st month, first day of the week following Unleavened Bread.

  • Weeks - Also called Shavuot or Pentecost, falls 7 weeks after First Fruits. In the New Testament, we see the apostles celebrating this Feast of the Lord in Acts 2. This is the last Feast of the Lord occurring in the spring.

  • Teruah - Also called Feast of Shofar Blasts, Feast of Trumpets, Feasts of Shouting. This is the first feast occurring in the fall. It falls in the 7th month, day 1.

  • Atonements - Also called Judgments, called Yom HaKippurim or Yom Kippur in Hebrew, this feast occurs 9 days later: 7th month, day 10.

  • Tabernacles - Also called the Feast of Booths, Tents, and Dwellings, this feast occurs 5 days later: 7th month, day 15.
Additionally, God calls the Sabbath day, the 7th day, a weekly feast, a feast that has been in existence since the time of creation.

All of these Feasts of the Lord have symbolic meaning, with special commandments given to us detailing how to commemorate these eternal Feasts of the Lord.

Messianic Jews and some wise Christians have suggested these feasts of God have special meaning because Messiah fulfilled some of these.

For example, the first 4 feasts -- all which occur in the spring -- were fulfilled in real-time by the Messiah: his betrayal coming the very night he was celebrating Passover with his disciples (becoming the sacrifice Passover lamb), his death during Unleavened Bread (the unleavened/sinless one being buried for 3 days), his resurrection on First Fruits (becoming the first fruits from the dead), his sending his spirit to the disciples while they were celebrating Weeks.

Likewise, we look forward to the last 3 feast which remain unfulfilled, so we speculate. We speculate that Yeshua the Messiah will return on Teruah, the day of shofar blasts; New Testament prophecy confirms Messiah will return with the blast of the shofar. 9 days later, on Atonement/Judgments we speculate is when he will judge the nations per prophecy in the Tenakh and New Testament. 5 days after that, on Tabernacles, he will tabernacle and dwell with us, the Prince of Peace bringing us lasting peace.

Want to learn more about God's calendar? Michael Rood, a Messianic Israelite gentile, has written an excellent article explaining the western calendar, the Jewish calendar, and the Creator's calendar: The Creator's Calendar.

He also has a podcast teaching on the subject:










Shabbat shalom, fine blog readers, and may the Lord use this to increase your understanding of his appointed times with humanity.

14 comments:

  1. The term "False Gods" is highly offensive. How is your god any less false than mine? My gods are older than your god. Therefore my gods get the privilege of having the months and days named after them.

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  2. Judah:

    Your critique of the Jewish calendar makes the kind of naive error often found in Two-House and Hebraic Roots circles. First, you misunderstand certain details of the calendar (such as why Rosh haShanah would be considered a new year). Second, you reject the idea that Judaism is a community and that we all need to follow community standards and not make our own standards. Third, you assume that any mixing with pagan terminology makes something tainted with impurity (never mind that the Bible uses pagan mythological references — Ps. 48:3 (vs. 2 in Chr. Bibles) calls Zion Zaphon’s peak (in the Hebrew, but not in most translations) with Zaphon being Baal’s mountain in Syria, and check out Leviathan and Rahab in a concordance for more examples, just to name a few).

    Anyway, I just wanted to say that I appreciate your contribution. I do not discount your writings because we disagree about these issues. But it reminds me we should read everything critically.

    Meanwhile, Judah, I challenge you to take in the Jewish perspective. You might be surprised at the beauty of Judaism if you try it.

    Derek

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  3. Anonymous, the term "false gods" is highly offensive. I believe that the God of Israel is the only real God. I am glad that goes directly against the grain of the evil people in this world. It offends many, but such is the nature of truth.

    Derek,

    I'd love to discuss this with you. You said I made 3 naive errors; if they are found to be in error, I will correct my theology, and if they aren't errors, then your theology needs be corrected.

    I'm open. :-)

    So, let's figure this out.

    The first issue you bring up is Rosh HaShanah being the head of the year. My understanding is that it is deemed the head of the civil year. Is that correct?

    My point there was that the term "Rosh HaShanah" is not Scriptural. I don't see it anywhere in Scripture. Referring to it as the head of the year isn't something God instituted. Is that correct?

    Your second point about following community standards. Can you explain that a bit more? I don't know what you mean by community standards.

    Third point, well, you've got a good point there. At the same time, it doesn't take away from the reality that the Jewish calendar in use today is not the same as God's calendar he gave in Torah. It is close, but not the same. Would you agree?

    Regarding the beauty of Judaism, hey, I think we agree. In this post I said,

    I have found myself applauding and am often drawn towards the beautiful Jewish lifestyle, even with its faults, as I find it more Scriptural than the way most Christians are living!

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  4. Hi Judah...

    I wasn't offended by your post about the Jewish calendar. However, after reading other posts on your blog, I have a question for you.

    Can you tell me what are the differences between your beliefs (about Two-House, gentiles really being the lost tribes of Israel) and that of the British Israelism? Are not both trying appropriate Israelite identities for themselves? Is it just terminology? I find very little difference just by looking at available online materials.

    Thanks,

    Gene

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  5. I would rather go with the calendar made by YHVH than follow the calendar made by man.

    Levi

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  6. Gene,

    I can't speak for the whole of a theology, so perhaps this can explain things better than I can.

    I can speak for myself: I don't believe all gentiles to be members of lost tribes of Israel.

    I do believe that everyone who believes in Messiah is grafted into Israel. (Romans 9, 10, 11 especially) That doesn't mean one becomes "Jewish", but rather, it means one becomes different from the gentiles by following God's righteous ways, different from a foolish world that takes offense at the notion that there is only one way to God.

    A Jewish man once said,

    "The world that is pluralistic and likes to consider many paths to truth has got to contend with a gospel that insists upon itself, and the Jesus of that gospel, as the only truth. It is uncompromising in its insistence. It is absolute in its expression. And the very question of absoluteness and singularity itself runs right across the whole tenet and grain of the modern world. You understand that? Do you understand how pluralistic the whole mindset of the world is, how many options -- I don't know's, the maybe's, the grey's, who's to say's -- and into that whole mucky world of vagaries, and choices, and nuances, comes one statement out of the heart of God: "I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the Father but by me." To insist on the singularity of the gospel, to insist on the absoluteness of it: this is not just an issue of religion, it's hitting the world head-on in a confrontation of wisdoms, of moral systems, of mentalities.

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  7. Judah... but you, yourself, you do believe that you are a "lost" Israelite, don't you? Or do you simply view yourself as an in-grafted Gentile believer, with no provable physical Israelite heritage?

    If you do view yourself as a physical Israelite, what evidence can you put forth?

    I have read the paper you linked (months before, and now again). I love how it tries to silence its critics: "If you disagree with the Two-House teaching that advocates the restoration of all Israel, you are entitled to your opinion. But I advise you not to speak against it or claim that it is "heresy." Remember that we believe that when Judah and Ephraim are reunited Yeshua the Messiah will return and restore the Kingdom. It will be consummated with His Second Coming. If indeed this movement is truly of the Lord—do you want to be found speaking against it? It would be advised for you to just respectfully disagree with us and leave us alone. Time will tell whether this is truth or error. It is God’s problem if it is error, not yours."

    What "hutzpa" to appropriate that scripture verse for themselves!I guess you can make the same statement about all the false teachings and religions out there. Don't try to teach or fight against us, or you'd be fighting G-d Himself!

    Historically, genetically, and scripturally, this movement is absolutely baseless, not to mention very offensive to the real Israelites, the Hebrews (or generically, the Jews). Israel is prophesied (in Isaiah 10:22) to have only a small remnant left among the nations (of their ENEMIES), not the " many more millions of people" as described in the TNN rebuttal.

    Then there's this whole "lost tribes" myth..., which were never lost to begin with (just read 1st Chronicles 9:1 and 2nd Chronicles 11:14-17; 15:9,10; 30:6,10,18;, and a little friendly warning to the would be "Ephraimites" from G-d in Ezekiel 35:10). Acts 2:5 speaks of Jews coming to Jerusalem "from every nation under heaven."

    I want appeal to all my Gentile brothers and sisters in the L-rd to stay away from the deception of trying to claim physical Israelite descent and identity. It's a false identity without biblical or historical evidence, and it's very offensive to the Jewish people (and I dare to say even to G-d who chose them), believing or not. G-d loves you just as you are, He redeemed you, and planted you on a good tree along side with Israel.

    Shalom,

    Gene

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  8. If you do view yourself as a physical Israelite, what evidence can you put forth?

    Gene, I'm Jewish from my father's side. Still, I wonder how many Jews today would be able to answer that.

    I have read the paper you linked (months before, and now again)

    Really? Where did I link to it? Google tells me I haven't yet linked to it, but I could be mistaken. Anyways, moot point. Let's get to the meat of what you're saying.

    I guess you can make the same statement about all the false teachings and religions out there. Don't try to teach or fight against us, or you'd be fighting G-d Himself!

    Indeed, does not Messianic Judaism claim the same defense? That the Jewish people are being called to Messiah by a work of God? I believe it. Messianic Israel believes that gentiles are being called to God's Torah as they are part of Israel, whether physical or grafted-in. I believe it.

    Historically, genetically, and scripturally, this movement is absolutely baseless

    What part of the movement are you talking about, that gentiles may have Israelite descent? Or that God is calling even the gentiles to keep his commandments? Please explain, I'd like to better understand your position.

    to have only a small remnant left among the nations (of their ENEMIES), not the " many more millions of people" as described in the TNN rebuttal.

    And yet Abraham's descendants are to be as the sand on the seashore, the stars in the sky.

    He [God] redeemed you, and planted you on a good tree along side with Israel.

    Show me Scriptural support for this. Where in Scripture does it say God will both have a "Church" and have his people "Israel", both with different standards? (E.g. one group has to follow Torah, the other does not.)

    On the contrary, I see Scripture suggesting that there is but 1 tree, Israel, with 1 standard, Torah:

    Did Israel stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

    If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

    Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

    I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.


    Gene, so far I have spoken softly to you and to Derek, and have hopefully backed up everything brought into question with Scripture. Your arguments seem to be against the Two-House/Messianic Israel movement, more than they are against me.

    Does that sum up your view? If you do have arguments against something I have stated, please present it. If it is against the Messianic Israel theology, well, I only recognize some truths in it. Right now it appears as if you're ranting against a theology that wasn't even mentioned in the blog post.

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  9. Gene, I guess my previous post can be summed up as, "What in the blog post do you disagree with?"

    Is there something you disagree with, or are you here to debate me about some theology that was not put forth in the post?

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  10. Hi Judah...

    You said: "Gene, I'm Jewish from my father's side. "

    Please do not take offense, I am curious about your surname, "Himango". It seems of Finnish origin (not that many Jews in Finland, you know). Who on your father's side was Jewish? Your father, your grandfather, your great-grandfather? It seems that you are not tracing your descent patrilineally (from father to father), otherwise your Jewish paternal surname would have been preserved at least in some form. I find that a lot of Gentiles believe in an "all-powerful" Jewish blood - a single drop eons ago makes one a Jew and make all "Gentilness" null. Oye!

    "Still, I wonder how many Jews today would be able to answer that [about one's father being a Jew]."

    An overwhelming majority, I would say.

    "Gene: I have read the paper you linked (months before, and now again)

    Judah: Really? Where did I link to it? Google tells me I haven't yet linked to it, but I could be mistaken."

    I was talking about READING that paper months before, not you linking it. I only found your blog last week.

    "Gene: Historically, genetically, and scripturally, this movement is absolutely baseless...

    Judah: What part of the movement are you talking about, that gentiles may have Israelite descent? Or that God is calling even the gentiles to keep his commandments? Please explain, I'd like to better understand your position."

    Part of the movement that claims physical descent from Israel.

    Should Gentiles keep the commandments of G-d? Yes, of course. But not the Israel specific commandments and identity markers (Should Gentiles be circumcised? Not according to Brit Hadasha).

    "Gene: He [God] redeemed you, and planted you on a good tree along side with Israel.

    Judah: Show me Scriptural support for this. Where in Scripture does it say God will both have a "Church" and have his people "Israel", both with different standards? (E.g. one group has to follow Torah, the other does not.)"

    I do not believe in a "Church". I believe in the Body of Maschiach composed of Jews (Israel) and Gentiles (Nations), joined together as one (yet distinct at the same time, just like like husband and wife). NOWHERE does the scripture EVER refer to Gentiles as Israel or Israelites - please show me if you can find it. Everywhere the scriptures talk of Israel, it's of ethnic Israel alone. A husband being joined to a wife doesn't become a wife, and vice versa.

    "Judah Gene, I guess my previous post can be summed up as, "What in the blog post do you disagree with?"

    Is there something you disagree with, or are you here to debate me about some theology that was not put forth in the post?"

    I wrote to you in my very first post, that I didn't take offense at your Jewish calendar post. In fact, I would agree with you that a lot of the Rabbinical Judaism is but a shadow of the original Biblical Judaism. I would also agree that indeed, paganism has crept into some of it.

    However, as I started reading the rest of your blog, a saw the now familiar Two-House theology liberally sprinkled across your blog. That's why I decided to challenge you in your very latest post. I hope that you don't mind that, do you?

    Shalom,

    Genedj

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  11. Hey Gene,

    Please do not take offense

    None at all. I'm tired of people being offended. :-)

    I find that a lot of Gentiles believe in an "all-powerful" Jewish blood - a single drop eons ago makes one a Jew and make all "Gentilness" null. Oye!

    The name is Finnish, good guess. My dad was adopted at birth by an American family with a Finnish ancestry.

    I am only part Jewish as I said previously. 3 generations to go back to the Polish Jew progenitor by the name Sokolowski. If you're going to argue I'm not "Jewish enough" to be considered Jewish, well, I guess I'll leave you to your categorizations. I'm not sure race matters since Messiah has made Jew and gentile on equal footing before God.

    [I disagree with the] Part of the movement that claims physical descent from Israel.

    I agree that there is no genetic evidence supporting racial descent; I haven't seen any evidence

    With that same honesty, I submit that we know some Israelites were scattered among the gentiles, heck, we have one of the books of New Testament written to the "12 tribes scattered abroad". An intellectually honest person agrees Israelites were scattered abroad -- I suspect you agree to this point as well. You simply argue that the gentiles today claiming Israelite descent can't know they're Israelites and have no genetic evidence to back up that assertion. To that end, we agree.

    Should Gentiles keep the commandments of G-d? Yes, of course. But not the Israel specific commandments and identity markers (Should Gentiles be circumcised? Not according to Brit Hadasha).

    Ah, Gene, you've opened another can of worms! :-) I disagree that gentiles do not need to keep mitzvot such as circumcision. The New Testament suggests we do not need to be circumcised to be saved, but it does not suggest that gentiles need not keep any commandment. Messiah's words in Matt. 5 suggest all commandments are effectual. Perhaps we need to start a new thread for that topic!

    I do not believe in a "Church". I believe in the Body of Maschiach composed of Jews (Israel) and Gentiles (Nations), joined together as one (yet distinct at the same time, just like like husband and wife)

    Me too. I also believe in gentiles and Jews together as one in Messiah's Body. I call that true Israel; never in Scripture does God refer to anyone but Israel as his own called-out people. If gentiles are called part of his people, gentiles are part of Israel, God's people, regardless of physical lineage.

    NOWHERE does the scripture EVER refer to Gentiles as Israel or Israelites - please show me if you can find it. Everywhere the scriptures talk of Israel, it's of ethnic Israel alone.

    I disagree. Take Romans 2 for instance:

    "A man isn't a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God."

    What do you think of that one, Gene? I'd like to discuss a few others as well, but we'll take one at a time; I find these blog comments already getting long enough to write a short novel. :-)

    as I started reading the rest of your blog, a saw the now familiar Two-House theology liberally sprinkled across your blog. That's why I decided to challenge you in your very latest post. I hope that you don't mind that, do you?

    Not at all, man, was just trying to understand where you're coming from, and I wanted to get clarity on that: readers of these comments should understand that what we're discussing has no relation to this blog post on God's calendar.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Erev tov, Judah...

    You said: "I am only part Jewish as I said previously. 3 generations to go back to the Polish Jew progenitor by the name Sokolowski."

    I have a family friend with that last name... a Jew from Ukraine (like me).


    You said: "If you're going to argue I'm not "Jewish enough" to be considered Jewish, well, I guess I'll leave you to your categorizations."

    It's a tough one. Were you raised with a Jewish identity? Was your grandfather raised as a Jew? I personally tend to consider Jews as coming from patrilineal descent. How far back can one go? I am not sure, but I do not see too many (or any) example in the scriptures of someone recovering their Israelite identity after living many generations as a Gentile (I guess that would make me opposed to the Messianic Israel, even if they had a drop of Jewish blood in them).

    On the other hand, if you Judah really are a direct patrilineal descendant from three generation back (can it be documented?), if I were you, would I personally try to reclaim my Jewish heritage as a Sokolovky? May be... but I would stay far away from the Two-House/British Israelism mess...

    You said: "I'm not sure race matters since Messiah has made Jew and gentile on equal footing before God."

    Judah, that's not the point, is it, who is superior? Who argues that? Nobody argues about some inherent superiority of Jews (although you have to acknowledge the Jewish nation's impact on the world out of proportion with it's number - but it ALL came from the grace of G-d, didn't it, not from the effort man?). The point is being from the tribes of Israel - it about who were are and who we will stay for ever (Jer 31:35,36).

    You said: "I agree that there is no genetic evidence supporting racial descent; I haven't seen any evidence. With that same honesty, I submit that we know some Israelites were scattered among the gentiles, heck, we have one of the books of New Testament written to the "12 tribes scattered abroad". An intellectually honest person agrees Israelites were scattered abroad -- I suspect you agree to this point as well."

    Judah... the 12 tribes scattered abroad are the Jews - they were in the diaspora, and many still are (like me). It's nothing to do with Gentiles really being hidden Jews. Acts 2:5 speaks of Jews coming to Jerusalem "from every nation under heaven." There they are, the Jews from all the nations! What say you?

    Mormons also claim descent from Ephraim and Manasseh (so the Two-House folks are in good company). They also say that Jews (Judah) their brothers. It's just hilarious to read their "academic" papers trying to discount lack of genetic continuity with not only the Jews, but the rest of the Middle Eastern population!

    You said: "You simply argue that the gentiles today claiming Israelite descent can't know they're Israelites and have no genetic evidence to back up that assertion. To that end, we agree."

    No my friend, I argue that the Gentiles claiming Israelite descent ARE NOT Israelites, period, but deceive themselves and others. That's my opinion and that of many other MJs.

    You said: "Ah, Gene, you've opened another can of worms! :-) I disagree that gentiles do not need to keep mitzvot such as circumcision."

    Paul said they must not. If this was a command of G-d for them, Paul would only encourage it, right (but with proper intentions)? But of course, Paul does not such thing. He only forbids, without qualifications. Not only that, but here's the biggest verse to counter your point. Do you remember the following scripture:

    1 Corinthians 7:18 "Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 20. Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called. "

    How can you explain away the words "Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. " if G-d really intends for Gentiles to get circumcised (as you claim)?

    You said: "Take Romans 2 for instance:

    "A man isn't a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God." What do you think of that one, Gene? "

    This verse has nothing to do with Gentiles whatsoever. It simply speak of what it means to be a TRUE Jew. But this verse is absolute FAVORITE with replacement theologians. Let me give you the following analogy/statement to clear this up pretty quickly:

    "A beautiful woman is not just the one who is so externally, but rather the one who also beautiful on the inside, in her heart"

    Now Judah, would you extrapolate from the above statement that it's really about a man, not a woman? If you don't, neither would I explain away the verse you gave me to say that it really speaks about Gentiles having a Jewish heart and being true Jews in the spirit, not the actual Jews.

    You said: "I'd like to discuss a few others as well, but we'll take one at a time; I find these blog comments already getting long enough to write a short novel. :-)

    Getting long... perhaps we can take it to my forum (bethavinu.org):)

    Shalom, it's been fun.

    Gene

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  13. In my family, we were raised keeping God's feasts as early as I can remember. We ditched the western holidays when I was very young, I must have been 7 or so. And when I was a young teen, we started keeping as much of the Torah as possible including kashrut.

    May be... but I would stay far away from the Two-House

    I recognize some truth in it. I believe the truth that God is calling gentiles out of the world through Messiah to keep his commandments and become members of God's set-apart people: Israel. That doesn't mean one has to have a lineage to one of the 12 tribes, but it does mean you have been called out by Messiah and grafted into the Israel tree.

    The point is being from the tribes of Israel - it about who were are and who we will stay for ever

    Precisely, Gene. I believe that God can call people who were not his own people and make them his people. Paul revealed this mystery to us in Romans, that gentiles who were lost are grafted into Israel through Messiah.

    Judah... the 12 tribes scattered abroad are the Jews - they were in the diaspora, and many still are (like me). It's nothing to do with Gentiles really being hidden Jews. Acts 2:5 speaks of Jews coming to Jerusalem "from every nation under heaven." There they are, the Jews from all the nations! What say you?

    Jews are members of the southern nation of Judah, hence the name. Jews today are mostly members of the tribes of Judah or Benjamin, with some Levi.

    The southern nation of Judah, comprised mostly of 2 tribes, returned from their captivity in ~700 BCE IIRC.

    The northern nation of Israel, comprised of 10 tribes, did not return from their captivity.

    Those 2 statements are both Scriptural and historical, I suspect you do not disagree with them.

    I must ask then, how can "the 12 tribes scattered abroad" mean only Jews? Jews were from Judah, which did not contain all 12 tribes. Please explain this, Gene, it's very troubling when considering your theology.

    It's just hilarious to read their "academic" papers trying to discount lack of genetic continuity with not only the Jews, but the rest of the Middle Eastern population!

    Gene, your mocking of it does you no good. Point me to some papers you mock, I'd like to read them for myself.

    Paul said they must not. If this was a command of G-d for them, Paul would only encourage it, right (but with proper intentions)? But of course, Paul does not such thing. He only forbids, without qualifications.

    Were that true, why did Paul circumcise Timothy, a gentile?

    I'd also ask how you reconcile that theology with Messiah's statement that suggests anyone who teaches others to disregard even the least of a Torah mitzvah will be considered least in God's kingdom.

    Not only that, but here's the biggest verse to counter your point. Do you remember the following scripture:

    1 Corinthians 7:18


    Yes, Paul also says, "Were you a slave when you were called? Remain so."

    Paul is not advocating uncircumcision any more than he is advocating slavery. That's missing the point. He's saying you don't have to change your circumstances to please men. This point is made over and over again in his epistles, especially to Galatians. This point was also addressed by all the apostles and Paul in Acts 15, when Jewish Pharisee believers in Messiah were submitting one must be circumcised to be saved.

    Paul even finishes his bit by saying, "Do not become slaves of men. Each man, as responsible to God alone should remain in the situation God called him to."

    I believe this to be the same reason Paul refused to circumcise Titus: believers were asserting he must be circumcised to be saved, and Paul wouldn't have any of it.

    Gentiles having a Jewish heart and being true Jews in the spirit, not the actual Jews.

    I agree. That's my theology.

    Likewise, not all Jews are real Jews. The reason I posted it was to help you see that not everyone who bears the name "Jew" is a real Israelite, a real man of God, and also that even people who are gentiles can be made Israelites, real men and women of God. Because it's all about God circumcising the heart and placing you in his kingdom, it's not about lineage to an ancient forefather.

    Another reason I posted that Scripture was because you asserted that Scripture never refers to Jews or Israel as anything but blood descent. Here we see that's not the case -- as you say, true Jews, true Israelites, aren't necessarily so by lineage.

    bethavinu.org

    Awesome, sure thing. I prefer to take this conversation elsewhere since it doesn't have any relation to this blog post. I'll post over there later today.

    Shalom Gene.

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  14. Judah:

    I respond to your musings about the Jewish calendar at http://derek4messiah.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/in-defense-of-the-jewish-calendar/

    Derek

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